Unraveling Perfectionism: Shannon Talbot's Journey From Burnout to Balance

Ever felt like you're juggling too many balls in the air, only to realize you're the one tossing them higher and higher? Shannon Talbot, a pioneer in finance and advertising, joins us to share her inspiring tale of grappling with burnout and the all-too-common struggle of self-imposed perfectionism. Her candid recount of a career that demanded everything and the personal crises that brought her to a standstill, as narrated in her book "Breaking Free," is a mirror to the many challenges I've faced in the high-octane realm of marketing.

As Shannon and I unravel the threads of our stories, we uncover the trials of pursuing passions, the transformative shift towards empowering others, and the creation of supportive tools for those who aspire to echo our paths. My own evolution from harboring hidden writer dreams to becoming a guide for budding podcasters underlines the conversation, affirming that while the road may be strewn with hurdles, the pursuit of what truly ignites our soul is a journey worth embarking upon.

This episode isn't just about the struggle; it's about the strategies and real-life experiences for finding harmony in the chaos of work, parenting, and self-care. Sharing personal anecdotes and practical tips, from embracing morning routines to maintaining a semblance of balance, this dialogue is an open book on the highs and lows of modern life. It's about understanding that while perfect diets and activity-filled schedules may falter, prioritizing oneself isn't selfish—it's essential. Join us as we navigate these waters together, offering a lifeline of solidarity and wisdom.

Looking for more?
Check out Shannon's book --> https://amzn.to/4dIyCkd
Instagram --> Shannon Talbot | Keynote Speaker, Author, Happiness Expert (@shannontalbot_coaching) • Instagram photos and videos
LinkTree --> @ShannonTalbot | Instagram | Linktree

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hi everybody, welcome to another episode of Steel Rose's podcast. This podcast was created for women, by women, to elevate women's voices. I'm super excited today, as usual with my guests, because they've been such impactful, powerful women's voices. Today's guest, she, is a leader in the corporate world, both in financial services and advertising, which, if you work in corporate, you know how amazing that is, that she's killing it in both of those areas. But, like many women, our guest today experienced burnout from not prioritizing her well-being or knowing how to manage her stress.

Speaker 1: 0:40

So, without further ado, I want to introduce you to Shannon Talbot. Now, what I didn't mention is that she's also the author of this amazing book called Breaking Free. And, shannon, I'm going to gush just for a minute here because I started reading the book and it literally felt like me talking to myself while I was reading the book. And I love it because the book is really just in such a wonderful language in terms of like the tone and the messaging. So, welcome to the podcast. Super excited to have you here. Why don't you just let the listeners know a little bit more about yourself?

Speaker 2: 1:18

Sure. Thanks so much for having me, jenny. It's great to be here. Hello everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:24

So a bit about myself. I live in Toronto, canada. I am a mom of two incredible boys who are oh gosh, they just turned 9 and 11 now. We adopted them as babies. There's a whole journey in my book about fertility and stuff there, if anyone's interested.

Speaker 2: 1:41

Two incredible boys married for 16 years and I think the big part of my story is that in 2008 is the first time I assumed a new title, I guess you could say. So that's kind of where my story starts. I worked at a university, I went into banking. It wasn't necessarily where I thought, oh, I'm going to grow up and work in banking, but it was just. You know, it kind of fell into my lap and a great opportunity came along and it was really fun and exciting and then had an entrepreneurial spirit, so loved it.

Speaker 2: 2:13

And then in 2008, I got married and I went back to school and I did my MBA and that's when everything kind of started to change for me, because I started what I call putting self-imposed expectations on and I started telling myself stories like oh, shannon, you're a wife now you have to act a certain way. And then in the corporate world, as I started moving my way up and getting more responsibility and starting to be more, being responsible for projects and people, with each role and each new responsibility I told myself, oh, you have to act this way now. And I put all this pressure on myself and no one was doing it. My husband wasn't doing it, it was all me.

Speaker 2: 2:56

And I started to lose a bit of myself and I started to act how I thought I should and I use should in quotation marks rather than what felt more authentic to me. And it only got worse as time went on. And then I became a mom and all the pressure that comes with that, and I was very ambitious. I wanted to climb the corporate ladder, I wanted to do really, really well in my career, but at the same time I started to notice it didn't light me up anymore. And a few years ago my oldest who was then five, so I guess six years ago now he was hospitalized for his appendix and we spent 31 days in the hospital.

Speaker 2: 3:36

And he was totally fine after that, but it was a scary 31 days and during that time was the first time my career kind of took a back seat and I asked myself three questions and I said Shannon, are you happy, are you healthy and do you feel fulfilled? And my answers were like not really. And for someone who's high, achieving and wanting to do so well in all areas, that was pretty hard to admit. And then with that came the guilt, because it was like oh my gosh, shannon, on paper you have it all. What could you possibly want different? Like, why do you want more? But that was something that once that happened, there was no turning back. And that's when I really started looking after myself. We can get more into it. I won't just go into it too much here, but like looking after myself. But also I started working with a coach to figure out okay, what do I want to do with my life? Like, what is it that will light me up?

Speaker 2: 4:32

And in the meantime I moved from banking into advertising, which was a super fun, yet, oh my gosh, high stress, fast paced job. My client was a large US bank and it was, you know, it was a lot, but also really fun and creative and strategic. But my kids started to suffer as a result, right. So I was super stressed all the time I was bringing that home. I was short with them, I didn't have the patience and I was becoming this person that I no longer wanted to be. So fast forward to the pandemic and I decided you know what, enough is enough. I'm going to chase my dream of having my own business. And I launched my own business where I do coaching and speaking, and then wrote this book really to help people live more meaningful lives.

Speaker 2: 5:21

I know, that was a lot lives.

Speaker 1: 5:29

So I know that was a lot, no well. So truth be told for the listeners. So I already mentioned I'm reading her book already and so for me, like hearing you tell the story, it resonated so deeply with me so I do want to.

Speaker 1: 5:40

I'll share a little bit and listeners are aware of a lot of like my background already, because I do share so much. I had a very similar trajectory and so I work in marketing and communications for pharmaceutical companies. So when I, when you said, like advertising, it's like so fast paced, and I'm like I feel you and in the book you noted it and I'm like I know that that strain there. And I also had a similar situation where I hit like a professional wall where I was like I have literally achieved exactly what I set out to do, because I had actually I had very intentionally been like I'm going to do this professionally. And a lot of it was the should, because I think all women have that like well, I should be doing this, so I'm going to do it. And for me it was a little bit of a self preservation because of my parents divorce and my mom didn't work, and so I was like I'm going to work, I'm going to have this, this really great career. So I like climbed the corporate ranks and I went, you know, every two or three years I got my promotions or I left the companies and moved on to bigger and better things and I got to a point, um, three years ago, about the same time, about three years ago, where I I hit this professional wall where I was like wow, um, I, I got put on this project. That was like heavy duty. My kids were I have twin girls who are five at the time and my son was six and I got put on this crazy project that I had specifically asked not to be put on. And I got put on it and I was forced into leading it and it took me away from my kids and my husband for about three weeks. Like I work from home. But to say, shannon, that like from like 7am to about 4 or 5pm I was just locked in my office. I would come out and make dinner, make sure everyone was bathed, put them to bed. I'd go back to my office.

Speaker 1: 7:38

Like it was intense, and people, when I say like I didn't see anybody, I didn't speak to anyone, my husband kind of kept dropping hints like what are you doing? Like you know, and he was getting frustrated too. He's like what is this? Like this is not really what's supposed to be happening here. And I got to the end of it and when I lifted my head up I had that same epiphany of like what am what am I doing, like, what am I doing here? And I lost all that time with my kids.

Speaker 1: 8:09

And three weeks might not seem like a lot, but when your kids are little and they're growing and sprouting, I was like devastated at the end of it and it really made me pause and I think that's what I think. That's why your story is like hitting so deeply with me, because I took a minute. I was like, oh, my God, my god, like you know, I've been like rushing so fast towards this end goal of getting this one title or getting this salary range or you know whatever it is, and then I wasn't paying attention to everything around me and like everything around me was growing and changing and I lost all that time. So that's where I was like finding the through line with your story.

Speaker 2: 8:44

Yeah, so you're right. So similar, so similar. Yes, I can imagine how those three weeks must have felt.

Speaker 1: 8:52

Yeah, it was intense and, listeners, you know, I think that like it's a lot of like, I know, I we speak mostly about like women and what women go through, and I think that this is like a situation or a scenario that, like many women will encounter. Is that, like you're, you're trying to fulfill the shoulds, like you said. So, like you know, you did mention and I want to circle back to this like you felt like you had to act a certain way in certain scenarios, and I think that that's like a really important thing to kind of circle back to and maybe dive in more on the detail, because there's a lot of people that are like well, I'm married now, so I should be doing this. Or I've just got this job, so I should be doing this. Or I'm supposed to have a baby. I'm only I'm 30. I need to have a baby now because I'm 30, which is like one of my things that I had. Like none of those shoulds are real right?

Speaker 2: 9:43

Yeah, none of them. I know they're all self. We do them to ourselves, self-inflicted, self-imposed, whatever you want to call it. I know it's and and I think you know part of it's. Society, right and and what, what, who we follow and what we see. But I think a lot of it is just you know what we grew up with, maybe the values we saw with our parents or our social groups and things like that, and like my best advice is to throw it all out the window and just do what you want to do, what feels right. Listen to your gut. You know, I think we're.

Speaker 2: 10:18

We don't trust our gut as much as we should, and our gut knows our gut knows what we want and we, we, you know we get conflict between even our heart and our head, like our head's telling us don't do that or do this, or you have to talk this way, and our heart's telling us, oh, that doesn't feel right and it's like we just have to. You know, go with our heart and our gut a bit more and and trust that we do know what's best for us.

Speaker 1: 10:42

What I had started doing because I had that revelation, and that's actually how I ended up podcasting, by the way, like it started it started with that and then I started to take, like online classes with different folks, just to see, like, oh, let me like test the waters because, much like you and again, like in my head, we're best friends, by the way, just so you know love it. Just because of the book, I was like, oh, we're friends, okay, much like you, I've always wanted to own my own business. I always had that entrepreneurial drive.

Speaker 1: 11:13

When I was like 11 years old, I started a babysitting business and I had a book of clients and I had a whole babysitting kit and I like I went in deep with this and I had like, and I had a whole babysitting kit and I like I went in deep with this and I had like, and I had a lot of families depending on me and I did it for like a couple of years and I was like a little kid, just like running things and it's always been something that I've wanted to do, so when I had that moment of like, I've gone so far down this path with my career, but now I'm realizing that this is not something I want to do and I've just been doing it because I was checking this box and I love what I do.

Speaker 1: 11:48

Like I love the work, but there just was something starting to go missing and the joy started coming out of it. And so what? For me, I needed a creative outlet, and I think that it sounded a little bit similar to you. You needed that outlet, and for me it was well, I'm going to start podcasting, I'm going to pull the trigger, I'm just going to start doing it because I had talked about it for years.

Speaker 2: 12:13

I love that. That's a great story. Funny, we have so many similarities. Jenny, I also was into babysitting and had my own babysitting kit I took around, so funny.

Speaker 1: 12:22

That's hilarious. So so you left your corporate job just so. Now you're an entrepreneur, I have your book. I'm gonna link guys, everybody, I'm gonna link her book in the description of the episode, because I do really think that everyone should pick it up.

Speaker 1: 12:39

Um, and not just because I I love it, but also because of the way it's written. So, shannon, I I just because I work in communications I'm paying really close attention to it, the way that it's written. It's not like science, data, heavy stuff. This is like legitimate Shannon sharing her experiences. She's sharing experiences for other people and she actually is doing a really good job of like drawing that through, line of like. This is what happened to me, but this is my result of why I acted this way, and now you're seeing that and to me personally, it's really helpful. I'm on the section of like finding what's lighting you up and and the barriers that you tell yourself. So I do want you to elaborate on that too, because, like for many of us, we have this little inkling inside of us, like, oh, I kind of really like this and I would love to do this, but it seems ridiculous that I would want to do this as a calling or as a living.

Speaker 2: 13:32

Yeah. So I'm going to blow part of a chapter for all of you listening, I guess sneak preview. But one of my chapters is my two secret silly dreams. So in high school I had two dreams. One was to be a writer and the second one, which I thought was really out there, was to be a motivational speaker. And the motivational speaker one I was on the student's council. I was a treasurer. My background's kind of boring I was the treasurer for a student council and we were at this conference and I come from a town of 8,000 people, so really small.

Speaker 2: 14:12

I was at a conference and I saw this guy and I couldn't even remember what he, I couldn't tell you what he said. All I remember was the feeling I left with. And I left with this feeling of like, yes, we can do anything, and just a really great feeling. And he wore all these silly hats. That, yes, we can do anything, and just a really great feeling. And he wore all these silly hats. That's the only other thing I remember about him. I wish I knew his name, I'd love to find him, but there was that moment where I was like, oh, I would love to do that one day. I would love to speak to groups and motivate them and excite them, but immediately it came with oh, that's not a career, you can't. Who does that for a living?

Speaker 1: 14:44

And this is in the 90s, right?

Speaker 2: 14:46

So it's really like who does that? No one. So I pushed it aside and I never really let it come back. And then with writing, I'll never forget the one time I got a call home from a teacher. I think it was grade 11. It might've been after that, but after an English exam my teacher called my house, wanted to speak to me and said the essay you wrote during your exam was amazing. Have you considered going into English or something like that for university? And I went nope, going to business. I had to go with the practical route. I wouldn't have said this to him, but in my head I'm like writing's not a career, come on. So it's two things, but they.

Speaker 2: 15:30

The thing about our dreams is they never fully die right. They sit inside us and they may be hidden for a while, but they started to pop back up to me. And for me you know, life is short and I just I'm a person who I want to feel fulfilled. I want to be excited about my day. I want to be doing work that's meaningful, because we work like 90,000 hours in our lifetime. It's a lot.

Speaker 2: 15:57

So for me it was like it got to a point where I'm like no, it's time to pursue my goals and my dreams. And it has, like it's incredible, it's hard work, it's really hard. It was a steep learning curve, you know, to get learn the sales aspect and all of those types of things, but it has been so worth it to finally be like, yes, I'm doing what I used to think were silly and stupid, right, that weren't possible, that you couldn't make money from. And I'm doing it, I'm making money from it. So you know, whatever that dream is whether it's to change industries or, you know, go to a job with less responsibility, you know it doesn't matter what it is, it's try it out, see what you think. If it doesn't bring you joy, then you know and you can kill that dream. But you can never really kill it until you pursue it and see what happens.

Speaker 1: 16:48

I think that one of the other parts of your book and you touched on it a little bit here is like the fear factor. And it's either and I'm not going to read verbatim because, again, I love the book so much, by the way, everyone I showed Shannon the copy of the book that I have and there's tabs all over it because I'm literally like tabbing it and highlighting stuff but the fear factor and that this, this was one for me that I felt like was really important. I want to mention this too is you know the three different classifications of fear. It's like the people that will let the fear take over. They won't try to overcome it, it's just there and they're like I'm scared to do this. And then it's like the people who are willing to try to overcome their fear. And then it's those who will literally live in fear and I'm sorry, completely fearless was the one. So I butchered it a little bit, but the I started thinking about it and I'm going to share this because the listeners are basically in my journey with me.

Speaker 1: 17:47

I've been working on for podcasting because part of when I little Jenny, when I was little I also want to be a writer, by the way and then wrote it off because I was like I can't make money doing that. I also did that, but then I ultimately I had always felt this really big drive to like help people and when I was little, I really wanted to like change the world. I wanted to have an impact and so, through podcasting and getting to talk to all like yourself and all these amazing guests that I've had on here, something that I identified that I really enjoy doing is like coaching other people who want to do podcasting, and I had this sort of epiphany moment. I'm like oh, you know what, jenny, you could record modules, you could put together a guide, like you could write up this whole thing. So I spent about four weeks ish writing up a guide. I shot all of the learning modules. I've pretty much done all of the dirty work and I am having trouble navigating the website funnels that will push it live, and it's been on pause for, I want to say, about two or three weeks Now.

Speaker 1: 18:57

Granted, my kids were sick with stomach viruses, which you know, like there was a bunch of other stuff happening outside of it, and I kept thinking to myself like well, and I and I've said this to myself like well, it'll launch. When it launches, it's right there. I just have to figure out this last step and then I'll be able to launch it. But in reading your book, I'm starting to think to myself well, maybe I'm like delaying this on purpose, like, and what am I so scared of? And I was reading through the exercises and the examples that you're providing and to me now I'm thinking well, you've put so much work into this. Perhaps now you're scared that you're going to put it out there. No one's going to want it. And then you're going to feel like, well, damn, I did all this work and I've got nothing to show for it. So that's kind of like where I'm at today. I'm like Jenny, come on, girl.

Speaker 2: 19:54

And it's true, right, and those are very valid and legitimate fears that everyone has, and I'm sure everyone listening can relate to you, whatever project they're holding on to and whatnot. Um, but it's interesting, I don't um. A quote from Jade Shetty stands out for me. He shared that he releases his podcast episodes when he feels they're about 70% there and that to me, I was like, oh my gosh, I love that because he's a perfectionist and he would strive for perfection. And if we strive for perfection, we're never going to release the darn thing. So it's like what is that minimum criteria you need to have and then release it. And I think the beautiful thing is what you're releasing it can be updated, it can be edited it can be changed, right, I will say.

Speaker 1: 20:46

I will say I have come to a point where, especially like with podcast stuff so just so you know like I in the beginning when I was podcasting, would like try to perfect every episode and I talk about this in my guide a little bit where I was like driving myself insane trying to take out every little gap and like trying to make sure everything was a hundred percent there. And then the person that was coaching me literally said she was like I don't do that and I was like what? And she was like I don't even really listen to it again, I just throw in the music and like post it because, unless there was like something major.

Speaker 1: 21:15

you know you don't really have to do anything. And the first three months were like so stressful. And then, after I came to this realization of like, oh wait, I don't have to like be that crazy, okay, everything kind of just like streamlined after that it was so much easier. And then podcasting became fun again and I was like, oh, it's not as stressful as I was making it out to be. This is okay.

Speaker 1: 21:37

And in terms of the guide, yeah, like I in my head I'm like it's, it's done, like it looks great, it's there. I like had somebody QC it for me. They were like this is solid, you're all right, you can go there. And and it's just one of those things where I'm like I need to like sit down and just do it. And so I'm like I am literally scheduling time to be like Jenny, you're doing this, it's happening, kind of thing, because that fear factor is real.

Speaker 1: 22:01

So I mean for listeners, for you guys who are especially in this day and age, I think our generation growing up, it was a lot of like you should be doing things a certain way, like in my household you had to go to college, you had to go. There was no, no thoughts around it. You couldn't go to trade school, you had to go to college. And I think today that narrative has shifted so much that, like, even I tell my kids I'm like you really don't have to go to college, like you could do something else and be highly successful, and that's like the benefit I think we all have at our fingertips now, right, like you can do what you want with your passions.

Speaker 2: 22:42

Yeah, and I think the other beautiful thing about all this too, and like for our kids, is they don't need jobs are going to be available to them that none of us know about right now, right, oh yeah. So, even thinking about you know if anyone you know has their career path. And I remember one of my mentors as great as she was, I was in my 30s when she was mentoring me and she would tell me you need to know what job, what the job is, you want before you retire. Well, at the time, like I didn't even know I was going to become an entrepreneur, I didn't know where I was going. If I had to say anything, I probably would have said I'll be a senior vice president then at a company. But I just find that advice kind of dated now because we don't need to know where we're going. Yeah, it's great to have a plan and it's great to know, okay, what's your next move, or the two moves after that, or like, what are those exciting projects you want to take on? It's great to have like an idea, but I don't think we need to worry so much about okay, what do the next 10 years of my career look like? Because we may not know and it may change, and that's the other thing. It's okay if our dreams change.

Speaker 2: 23:53

That was another big one for me. That was hard to get over was I used to say this is my dream job. So when I got the job in advertising, it was amazing. I had the biggest team I'd had. Yet I got to fly to Chicago once a month from Toronto. I was going to be flying to New York City and then the pandemic hit. But on paper I was like, oh, this is the dream, this is it. And then when I changed into having my own business, I felt weird telling people because I'm like oh, but I just told them I was doing my dream job. And now I'm doing my dream job and it's like are they thinking like Shannon, get your stuff together Like what?

Speaker 1: 24:34

are you?

Speaker 2: 24:34

doing. You don't know what you're doing and it's, I think it's. The thing is we don't have to get so hung up on terminology or career paths or anything. It's just you know, follow your passions and do what feels right. And you know we might fail and that's okay and we'll learn from it. And then we just keep going.

Speaker 1: 24:51

I think that the I know for me like fear of failure doesn't hit so hard for me only because, like I do, I have basically trained myself in corporate that I am going to fail at least once on everything. Everything that I do, I'll probably fail at least once, or at least not hit it out of the park once. And with that, though, I've basically coached myself into being like all right, jenny, well, you've made a mistake, but now you're going to be so much stronger because of that mistake. And so I've the folks that I coach professionally for, like my daytime job and it gets confusing when I talk about all of it but like for my daytime job, the people that I've mentored over the years. That's how I've told them. Like you know, you're gonna make mistakes, and even, like for all entrepreneurs, for any path that you're going to take and even podcasting, you're gonna make mistakes. Like that's part of the whole process, because you're figuring it out and you're figuring out the best method for yourself.

Speaker 1: 25:52

Not every entrepreneur looks the same. Nobody's processes are the same. I'm finding that out, Like, as I, every person that I interview and then we've interviewed I've interviewed a lot of authors on the podcast for the spring series and everybody's had a different process. It looks overall it's like all the same, but like everyone's kind of different in the how they've approached things. So I actually do have a question for you. I know that you went from corporate and you did start doing speaking engagements. What inspired you to to write your book?

Speaker 2: 26:21

So my book was so I'm. How old am I? I'm turning 43 next month, which is funny. I last week I was telling people I was turning 42. So I was off by a year.

Speaker 2: 26:31

I mean, yeah, a year, and so I started work in the 2000s and when I started work, I would go I love self-help books and I would go to the library or not the library, well, yeah, that too but I would go to a bookstore and I'd look for the books that I'm like. I want to read somebody's real life experience. I want somebody to tell me or to share at least, how they did it. How did they balance their career with being a mom or just like with being a woman in corporate? I wanted to know and I found, you know, I'd get very like, oh, here's a leadership book where it was very, you know, business driven, which I, you know, I still there's some great ones out there, but I didn't. There was just no book out there that I wanted that would help guide me. And I also found in my experience a lot of the women I worked for and with they also, you know, they didn't go around sharing their stories as much right, it felt vulnerable. It felt, you know, you didn't want to share that. Maybe you felt like you were failing as being a mom. And so I really was craving that learning from experience, learning from people's stories.

Speaker 2: 27:48

And when I finally heard a former CEO of a coffee shop here in Canada called Second Cup. She shared a story of failing as a mom, basically in a talk that she gave when I was doing my MBA, and I include her story in my book because it was so powerful and it was the first time I'd ever heard another woman openly share her story but then how she also went on to become a CEO of a huge company and becoming a better mom. So up until then, you almost heard, oh, you can't have it all. You can only choose a mom. Choose a mom or choose a career. You can't have both.

Speaker 2: 28:31

And blah, blah and, like I agree, there's give and take, especially when our kids are young, it's hard. Certain, things are hard, but she was that example of here's how you can do it, but here's what you need to sacrifice to get there. Yeah, and so that was the book. I wanted to share stories of my stories other people I found inspiring, so I think I include 10 stories of other women across different fields, include their stories plus some practical exercises to actually help readers get to where they want to go and create that more meaningful life, whatever it looks like for them, whether it is in corporate, whether it's as an entrepreneur, whether it's a stay-at-home mom, it doesn't matter, but it's tools that can really, they can take and they can do something with how it hit you, because it was the first time you heard somebody like openly admit or excuse me, not somebody, a woman openly admit like a failure, especially as a mom.

Speaker 1: 29:37

I think that that's an and part of the basis of this podcast. Part of the reason why still roses even exists is because my cousin and I my cousin who I originally launched the podcast with we kept having these conversations about like oh, you know, this is so hard, you know, motherhood is so hard, being a professional and a mom is so hard. My cousin is a professor, so she's, she was like juggling all these things. And then you have social media and people just showing these picture perfect snaps and you know, and my husband's showering me in flowers and it's so seamless and beautiful and I have all the things and life is so lovely. But then you have like every single person who's looking at that is comparing themselves and saying like, oh well, that's not how my life is. Maybe like there's something wrong with me, there's something wrong with my kids, my husband, there's something wrong with my kids, my husband, there's something wrong with what I'm doing. But the reality of it is like the raw deal is that we are all hitting those same struggles. We're all failing in some way, like not majorly failing, but we are having failures in our eyes in some way. But realistically, like this is the norm, it's not a failure. You know, like there's times where and I will say like, say like there was a part in your book where you talked about your son's hit when he had to go to the hospital and you felt this tremendous guilt because you were like, damn, I should have taken him sooner to the doctor. And I have had that happen to me where I was so busy prioritizing other things that I didn't. It took me longer and I would have this tremendous guilt like I failed here. But it's not, it's not a failure. You know, we all go through it and having that transparency, I think, is so sorely needed amongst women. For some reason, we all carry this immense shame and feel like we need to show up to each other as if we're perfect and we're running things perfectly, and that is not at all the case.

Speaker 1: 31:38

I was at the school bus stop the one day and I'm going to share this story because there's like one of those moments where I was like I'm being judged but I don't care and all the moms are kind of just standing there talking about these lunches that they're preparing and all these dinners and what are, what are you cooking tonight? And then they kind of looked at me because I wasn't saying anything and I was like I pay for school lunch every day and we order out like three times a week because I'm super busy and I can't handle it. And everyone was like, oh, oh, I've always been very much of a like realist. Let's be real here, and I am not able to do all the things all the time.

Speaker 1: 32:22

When I do make my homemade meals or when I am able to do that, like I try to do it really well, but like you can't do all the things, you do have to have some give and take there and be transparent and not non judgmental with other women. We're all going through this, like everyone's going through it. So I appreciate your you're sharing that too, because it's like, yeah, that was the first time you probably ever heard a woman saying like I failed here, but this is the great outcome that came out of it.

Speaker 2: 32:54

Nobody ever talks like that and I. It kills me. Yeah, and that's how we learn too, and it's also how we feel less alone, right, when we can share and learn from each other. We realized oh, I'm not the only one who orders take it three nights a week. Oh phew, okay, right.

Speaker 1: 33:14

Right, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's. I laugh about it because I still see it and I still encounter women and moms who kind of who have that whole that you know, judgmental kind of tone there and it always kind of surprises me because I'm like why are you acting like that? We're just all real people here, we're all just trying to make it through this. Like it's not a big deal, you know, like we're just trying to make it. But yeah, I think your book really it's so important, it's so sorely needed and, again, like you, the language and the tone of your book is very much like a friend is like sitting there chatting with me and like telling me all the things. So, as an entrepreneur, um speaker, you're an author. Like how are you balancing and let me know if this is cool to talk about but balancing like managing that, but also managing your stress level now, because I know that was an issue before like different, different tactics that you're using.

Speaker 2: 34:05

Well, speaking of being open and transparent, I actually just took the last month off because which I have never done in my life. I know it's a privilege to do it, I know it's not possible for a lot of people, but I launched my book in January and I'm a recovering overachiever but it's still there. So I launched my book in January. I was doing all these podcast interviews January. I was doing all these podcast interviews, mailing books to have reviewed, doing guest articles. On top of I had my busiest quarter I've ever had for speaking engagements related to the book, but also not related to the book, because I speak on different topics like burnout and happiness and things like that. And then I launched a new coaching program to help women uncover their passion and, you know, figure out what they want to do with their careers. So I launched that and it was.

Speaker 2: 35:04

I did too much, too too much and I I didn't get to burnout because I this time I knew to recognize it and I. So I took a month off and I got back on track with exercising, eating healthier. I agree, I'm not all about like I don't need to eat healthy 100% of the time, but I'd swung way too far the other way. I got back on track with that and also for any of you entrepreneurs listening, it can be lonely right. So it was me doing a lot of stuff on my own. So I started to get more involved in the community again and I started exercising with one of my friends in the morning and doing things like that to really fill my cup up again. My husband also had foot surgery which meant he couldn't drive or walk the kids to or from school or do grocery shopping or any of the stuff that normally he takes on at least 50% if not more of.

Speaker 2: 36:04

Yeah, it just became April. Was this like month of oh?

Speaker 2: 36:07

my gosh, there's so much going on. So I took the month off and it was the best thing I could have done, because now I'm starting with like energy and you know, I was able to get clarity on where I wanted to go with my business and again I just the one thing I want to stay away from, the one. The area I won't let myself get back up to again is when I'm so stressed out that I'm taking it out on my kids. Yeah, that is the one thing that I'm like nope, that happened and I'm never going back there again and just my time with them. You know they're 9 and 11. They still want to hang out with me, so I'm like I'm going to milk that for all I can right now because it is so lovely and I know it's not going to be for much longer.

Speaker 1: 36:54

I know I think about that a lot actually, because right now my kids are like the twins just turned seven and my son turned eight in March. So we're right behind you, we're coming up right behind you and they are still very much attached to me. They all want to spend one-on-one time with me and I do go a little crazy because I try to make sure that I do get at least one day for each kid, that I can do something with each kid. I've also had major problems with taking things out on my kids, stress-related, like, if I have a bad day at work not recently because I have been working so hard at course correcting that, but I would, because I work from home and I would literally like step out of the office door and they were already like what's for dinner? And I, you know there was no buffer for me and I would just be like a raging maniac. And the kids started to say to me things like well, mommy, like would it be all right if you just don't work so much? Do you have to work all the time? Because my laptop was literally always glued to me at that point, like I, you know. So I have a lot.

Speaker 1: 38:02

I've taken a lot of steps back, but I also, because you shared your month off, I actually am just starting discussions now with my employer to scale down to a four day work week. With my employer to scale down to a four day work week because it's just so much stuff and it, for now, it'll just be for the summertime, because I'm like my kids are going to be home, you know, for the most part, and I'm like I want to be able to not be glued to my desk the whole time, like I want to have that flexibility and, as you mentioned, like I know that that's not something everyone can do. This is the first time I've ever even considered doing it, but it's one of those steps. I'm like I feel like I need to do this at this point. Like there's like a driving force behind me that just keeps saying in the back of my mind like you have to take this time off Because it's not just.

Speaker 1: 38:53

You know, I do have my daytime job, which is a full 40 hour plus work week, and then I have podcasting as well, and then this, you know, the learning modules and all this other stuff that I was trying to do, and it did get to a point where I was like I'm like throwing so much at the wall but nothing is getting done, like nothing is sticking because I'm doing, I'm trying to do too many things at once, so I'm also trying to take that time, to be like I need to recalibrate this.

Speaker 1: 39:18

And for the entrepreneurs listening, the other thing too, shannon, and I want to know if you noticed this as well the self-imposed pressure on yourself to like hit deadlines. And I was talking to one of the women that I know that also podcasts we have accountability calls once a month, that I know that also podcasts we have accountability calls once a month. And I said to her I was like you know, I'm driving myself insane trying to hit these certain deadlines. And then it occurred to me Jenny, you're the one who's setting the deadlines. Just move them, just move it on.

Speaker 2: 39:49

Yeah, yeah, I've started doing that as well. You know, I looked at April and I was like, oh, there's quite a few things going on, but at the same time, it's like, shannon, you started your own business so you could be in control and have more flexibility. So I did, I was able to reach out. I can be choosy about who I work with, right, because in my past life I've worked with some pretty horrible clients and I'm like no, I'm going to work with people that I really enjoy working with, so they're fantastic. So when I reached out to them, I shared, you know, and they were okay to pause for the month and other things got pushed out and it's okay.

Speaker 2: 40:34

And I think that's the thing, too right. We're so driven around productivity and getting the most done and things like that, and I know it's overused a lot right now too, but rest really does improve our productivity. It really does. And this last month proved it for me too, because now when I sit down and write my posts and my emails that I send and things like that, like in the last two days, I've written more than I probably would have written in the month, because I have more clarity and I have more energy.

Speaker 1: 41:03

It's amazing the wisdom that comes as you get older. I turned 40 in December and it was almost like this again, like epiphany moment. I'm just like dang. If I had known all this stuff in my earlier days, like I probably would be in a different kind of a situation now, because I always felt so like I was the woman who was like I will work 15 hours a day for you, no problem, even when my kids were babies. My husband sent me a picture the other day and, um, because we reminisce back and forth, and it was I was sitting on a recliner and the twins were infants. So I had one twin here under an arm and one twin was laying on my lap and then my son was laying on the other arm and my laptop was propped up on a pillow and I had headphones in and you can very clearly see in the picture I was running an advisory board call.

Speaker 1: 41:54

Wow but all the kids were just sleeping on top of me because I was like I don't have a choice. They want to be with mommy, it's okay, I'll just keep going. And I'm like I could have like said hey, guys can't do it tonight. You know, like there's all these little moments and I always struggled with that and that's something that you know, especially now that I have kids. The other part of it, too is like, especially now that I have kids, the other part of it too is like I want to give an example of like a healthy balance versus like over indexing so far into all the should you do, and you know trying to be perfect and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 42:28

And you know, even we talked about like deadlines and things as an entrepreneur, but even like for stay at home moms, if you're hitting a wall and you're like, well, I'm not able to, you know, read with my kid every day, or if I'm not able to get these learning things in, or I can't take them to the library, like it's okay to flex and to pivot, you know, like you're not gonna hit it out of the park every day, You're not gonna get your kid to eat their vegetables every day. I can barely get my son to eat broccoli or any kind of vegetable. It's like an ongoing battle, but it's just one of those things that like it's okay, Like he'll be okay.

Speaker 2: 43:03

Eventually he'll eat some vegetables, he will 100%, and I think that's a great point about first day at home, moms and things too. I don't know if anyone else can relate to this, but I think during COVID I almost swung the other way, where, for the first bit of COVID, my career was I was working I don't know 11, 12 hour days. It was ridiculous, it was long, and I was so mad at people who posted that they're making sourdough and things like this, because I'm like yeah, I don't have time to do anything, but great for you that you have all this free time right.

Speaker 2: 43:38

So I was in the opposite end, where I was busier because I was in there because of COVID, our clients were like, well, you're just at home now, so you can work 24 seven, why not? So, yeah, so work was really busy and plus, you were just available. So, like you know, my boss would call me all the time just to check in, you know, and it just no one was traveling. So my work, a lot of people used to travel, but no one was traveling anymore. So it's like you had way more meetings.

Speaker 2: 44:05

Just everything got a little out of control way with me with parenting, because we pulled our kids from daycare. I started walking them to and from school, started thinking, oh, I need to have playdates for them and I need to be putting them in activities because they missed out during COVID and things like that and I'm hearing this from a lot of my friends too. It's like now the kids are so overbooked, or we're just a chauffeur for our kids, or they're doing so much now that it's like, okay, now I need to find that balance right when I'm not with my kids 24 seven anymore, and it's like coming back into the middle where I'm still able to, you know, run my career and do what I want to do there, spend time with my kids, but also have time for myself, because we all need time for ourselves, and I think that's the first thing that tends to go when we're when we're busy.

Speaker 1: 45:04

Yeah, 100%. You know, it's something that I also every day like think about, because, as I mentioned and now you're getting a better sense of me I do try to do like 1000 things all the time and you know, prioritizing time for myself has always been a struggle. And so what I started doing, I read this book, the Miracle Morning, by Hal Elrod. I don't know if you've heard of it. I've heard of it. Actually, you're in the 5am club, so it's kind of it's about the same, it's similar.

Speaker 1: 45:35

So I was getting I've started getting up earlier because at first I was like annoyed because I wanted to make sure I had time for myself and I'm like, why do I have to get up early? Like this kind of sucks. But the reality of it is when I get up early and I get in the meditation that I need and all of that stuff, and then I get to read a couple pages which is where your book comes in and then I get to do some exercise. Like I have about an hour in the morning to myself where I'm just doing this practice, and I've been doing it for like three months and it has totally shifted everything about my life. Everything that's been going on is totally shifted only because I wake up an hour earlier and make sure that I get some time to myself On the weekends. If I don't do it, I like feel way off and I'm like looking forward to Mondayoritize myself, but making sure even if it's like 10 minutes in the bathroom and you're pretending you're taking a shower, but you're not taking a shower.

Speaker 1: 46:43

That's, that's a good point to like make and say, like I just need 10 minutes to sit here and think yeah definitely, and I think, yeah for me, similar to you, and I think, yeah for me, similar to you.

Speaker 2: 46:59

starting morning routine is what finally got me that time alone, that time for meditation time, to exercise. It just really changed me to be more patient and to have more energy as well. So it's, yeah, it was a huge game changer for me as well.

Speaker 1: 47:16

It's interesting because I do have more energy when I wake up earlier, which?

Speaker 1: 47:19

is actually a little bit ironic, right, I know right, it's five o'clock in the morning and somehow, like I'm like, okay, this is great. I'm like by 7 am I'm like ready to rock and get everybody going, but if I woke up at 6 30, I would be a groggy mess and not be able to handle it. So it's just, it's a huge, huge impact. Shannon, thank you so much for sharing your story and for putting your story into words because, again, like I think that this is so important for just women to acknowledge that, like there are gaps, there's things that we're not doing for ourselves. We need to come out stronger and, if not for yourself, teach it for, teach it to yourself. If you have kids, to make sure that you're showing this example to them. Like it's hugely important that everything we do it's setting up for the next generation too. So that's the other thing. If you have a barrier doing it for yourself, then do it for your kids. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 48:14

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I greatly appreciate you coming on and joining us and listeners. I'll include in the description the link to the book and I'll include Shannon's information so if you want to any websites or social like, they can reach out to you.

Speaker 2: 48:30

Amazing. Thank you so much for having me and hope everyone breaks free and follows their passion.

Speaker 1: 48:38

Have a great day everyone, until next time.