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Steel Roses Podcast
Steel Roses is a podcast created for women by women. Social pressures for women are constant. Professionals, stay at home moms, working moms, we are here to tell you that you are not alone! This podcasts primary focus is providing real honest content shedding light on the daily struggles of women while also elevating women's voices.
All women are experiencing similar pressures and hurdles, and yet, no one is talking out in the open. If these topics continue to only exist as whispered conversations then we further permeate a culture of judgement and shame.
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Steel Roses Podcast
Sara Miley on Transforming Trauma, Healing Deep Wounds, and Empowering Growth
What if you could turn your darkest moments into a beacon of hope for others? Meet Sarah Miley, a crisis advocate and trauma recovery coach who has done just that. On Steel Roses, Sarah recounts her harrowing experiences with trauma and the pivotal moment in her thirties when she chose to seek therapy. Discover how her dedication to understanding psychology, neuroscience, and wellness led her to create Full Circle Wellness Spring and develop a personalized trauma healing system that's changing lives.
Navigating the maze of finding the right support can be daunting, especially for trauma survivors. Sarah sheds light on the critical difference between general life coaching and trauma-informed coaching, emphasizing the importance of working with certified professionals. She cautions against the pitfalls of unqualified experts and explains how unresolved trauma can infiltrate every aspect of life, from personal ambitions to coping mechanisms. Learn how high chronic stress and hidden traumas manifest and why trauma-informed practices are essential for genuine personal and professional growth.
Our journey doesn't stop there. Sarah and I explore the struggles of overcoming mental health challenges, such as eating disorders and anxiety, and the liberation that comes from breaking generational money patterns. Sarah shares her insights on the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model and its role in understanding and healing different parts of the psyche. We wrap up with practical advice for those dealing with relational trauma, stressing the necessity of acknowledging trauma, seeking help, and utilizing resources like Full Circle Wellspring. Join us for a transformative conversation that promises to equip you with the tools and knowledge for your healing journey.
https://www.fullcirclewellspring.com/
https://www.instagram.com/coachsaramiley/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/fullcirclewellspring/
https://www.facebook.com/fullcirclewellspring
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Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Still Roses podcast. This podcast is created for women, by women, to elevate women's voices. I am very excited to introduce you to our guest today. Sarah Miley is an experienced crisis advocate and an IFS informed trauma recovery and lifestyle design coach. Through her own learned and lived experiences, she is passionate about helping survivors find the roots of their suffering. By making sense of their trauma, they can make meaning out of their healing. She's the owner and coach of Full Circle Wellness Spring, the founder and coached sultan, if you will, of the personalized trauma healing system, and she actually is a host of her own podcast, the trauma survivorhood podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today, sarah.
Speaker 2:You're so welcome. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I think there's so many elements about what you're doing that to me are so important, so I want to just open it for you and then I'll ask my questions. I have my little questions on the side, Sarah. Why don't you just tell it for you and then I'll ask my questions? Because I have my little questions on the side. Um, Sarah, why don't you just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself? Um, your story, what?
Speaker 2:inspired you to be a coach. Thanks again for having me on. It's always an honor to be able to share my most important message, which is that healing is possible. So that's always kind of at the forefront of my mind when I jump on calls and interviews like this. So thanks for allowing me that platform to share that with people.
Speaker 2:So I started my journey 40 plus years ago and I have suffered through many different types of trauma and abuse at the hands of multiple people, multiple situations over multiple years, and that has created different types of trauma responses in my body, in my mind, in my emotions, psychologically, neurobiologically, and what I didn't know, I didn't know right. So I was moving along the world for like 30 something years, just until about eight years ago, just basically in survival mode, right With this trauma brain that has you doing the roles, doing the things that you can do to keep yourself safe, with really not a whole lot of awareness. I did start on a personal development journey in my early twenties and I did start meditating about a decade ago. So there was a little bit of like. There's so much more like. There's something more like something's not right or something's missing or you know, I wasn't quite sure what that was, and I had a bit of I don't know I'll call it like an identity crisis, you know like a like a quarter quarter life crisis in my early thirties and I started in therapy. I had my son when I was really young, so he was already almost ready to start driving, and I thought, you know, my kind of my role as a mom is, you know, kind of moving toward the end, like who am I, what do I want to be when I grow up, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So I started working with a therapist and in that I was able to tackle what actually was going on, which was I have been in survival mode for 33, 34 years, um, that I have had multiple traumas. I didn't even know that was a thing. I didn't understand how all of that worked. I didn't understand all the abuse that people had put me through, um, and in that I was still in ongoing traumatic situations at the time and I was like, no, this is fine, this is totally okay. And so in those eight years I've been able to really just kind of break open the entire ground, shift the entire foundation, like just kind of I literally just crumbled everything and rebuilt from the bottom up, because the foundation was shaky. First and second floors were like falling apart, the place was about to be condemned, like I was not in a good, healthy space, um, mentally, and that shows up in different ways for me anxiety, and I have a very ADHD kind of brain, um, and, uh, unhealthy coping skills, right, that are no longer serving me, but they basically were trying to keep me alive, right, and you know, perfectionism and eating disorders and all kinds of things.
Speaker 2:And so at the end of the day, here I am, flash forward all these years later, just really diving into the world of trauma, loving psychology, learning about neuroscience. And four years ago I was listening to a podcast, because that's what I do, I love to read and listen to podcasts and I've gotten so much great information, you know, kind of on like the Buddhist Zen philosophy, stoicism kind of route, all the way through neuroscience to, you know, mental wellbeing and health, health and that kind of thing, those kinds of podcasts, just absorbing and absorbing and just a sponge taking it all in. But a couple of years ago I heard a podcast where someone came on and they were a trauma recovery coach and I was like that's it, that's what I'm going to be with my life and that's what I did. I pursued my certifications. I've gone on to do other certifications with other organizations and I started Full Circle Wellspring three years ago, actually September, so whenever this airs it'll be three years. I've already had, you know, a couple of clients now that have made it to that like two and a half, three year mark with me, which is amazing. Um, and I've continued to grow.
Speaker 2:About a year ago I launched the personalized trauma healing system, which is now that customized, curated lifestyle design specifically for trauma survivors, and so my focus is with, uh, with people usually with CPTSD, complex PTSD, a lot of developmental trauma, which is like that childhood, those first couple of years of childhood that leads to all kinds of things in your adulthood and that really creates a developed and underdeveloped brain and emotional, socio emotional state for yourself.
Speaker 2:And I work a lot with those clients and I found that there's kind of a twofold.
Speaker 2:The trauma healing piece is like building tools in your toolbox to allow you to re-regulate when you're dysregulated, when you're in a trauma trigger.
Speaker 2:The other side of it is how can we also expand that window of capacity, or window of tolerance they call it so that you have more space to stay regulated, even when life is really stressful, maybe even when you get triggered, and the expansion of that window is possible via lifestyle design really curating and creating a space for yourself that feels safe, healthy sleep, healthy sex, health um, healthy family relationships, cutting off contact, bringing in contact If you're isolated, finding social relationships that work for you, doing a career that brings you joy, financial health, financial planning, finding that stability, and the goal there is to bring more thriving while you're now surviving, while you're in that space and you're still healing, because this journey doesn't end.
Speaker 2:So I like to, kind of I'm now mixing the two of them with my clients trauma healing and lifestyle design, so that we are doing, we're covering both during regulated times, expanding it, and then, when we're dysregulated, learning how to regulate and just how to relate to people and how to move forward in your own healing and find more joy. So, yeah, that's, that's my mission.
Speaker 1:I I love everything you said because there there's a few elements there that I want to highlight. So one of them is that this is not like overnight. You don't go, you don't have one counseling session or one, one coaching session and you know that's it. You're that's it, you're cured, like I don't see it as like anything related to mental health. I don't see it as like a quote unquote cure. You find your own path to being able to better manage and respond and I think you mentioned it, like you, how to better deal with your triggers. Like the triggers are going to be there and you have, unfortunately, like, experienced trauma and, to be fair, I think everyone has had some trauma. You know everyone that I speak to and a lot of the guests that come on to the podcast. Like there is always a background story which is actually the premise for the podcast. We all have a story to share here, but I want to make it clear to the listeners that like this is not like an overnight thing.
Speaker 2:Now, when I was, I'm still hunting for the magic wand myself. It doesn't exist If someone says that they do. They're just trying to steal all of your money. It's a lie.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for that, because there's all that. So there's like so much out there, right, like there's everyone's a coach now, right, everyone has expertise. I had somebody, a podcast colleague, that she gave a podcast thing. She dropped it and the reason why she dropped it was she was she was going through some stuff and it is hard to like run your own podcast and to really try to create a brand, like there's a lot to it. She was getting really frustrated. She tapped into the wrong person for support. She paid this person, you know, about $500 or so to help her get over a hump with her podcast and gain more listeners. And the person came back around, supposedly a marketing expert person, and gave her just horrible out of the gate like information and she just kind of she stopped after that because it just wasn't.
Speaker 1:So that's number one here is like, sarah's obviously certified, she knows what she's talking about, she's been through it and she's working to help other people through their healing journey. You have to find the right people, because there's so many people out there that are toting themselves as experts but they're really not. So that's number one is finding, like the good information. So in this podcast description, in the episode description. Here I'm going to link to all of Sarah's information, because if you are really looking for support, which I highly highly recommend, go to somebody who you know is a legitimate person. So that's Sarah's here. We want to spread this message, so that's out of the gate, right? And then the amount of time it takes. There's no quote for that.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah, you know I'll answer the both of those because they're both great.
Speaker 2:So for someone who has had maybe more acute traumas, maybe some, you know some things where they feel like they've really moved forward right, because I think you're right, like everybody's had a little bit of something right. In fact, now that we've all made it through a pandemic we technically all went through a giant global trauma right, if you're able to kind of move forward something like a business coach, an executive, a coach or even a life coach, there's nothing wrong with that. The trouble comes if they're not trauma trained. And here's a good example that I give about life coaches, because this is something that a life coach is called and hired for like a 12, you know, a three month or a 12 week kind of session for someone. It's like their, their wedding's coming up and they want to lose some weight, and so life coach is great to come up, design a plan, help you get connected to whoever on your insurance is allowed for you know, nutrition or wellness or whatever. Get you a gym membership, accountability, right, like get a vision board.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about this. What's reasonable for you, that's great. The buck can stop there, no problem, and that works for a lot of people. If you grew up in dysfunction and chaos in your family, your wedding day is probably going to be one of the most stressful days of your life. Maybe you couldn't invite some people, maybe some people you felt obligated to invite, you know there's going to be a fight. You know this person's not speaking to this person. You're worried that so and so is going to get drunk and this person's going to sleep with this. It's going to be a mess, right? Because there's just dysfunction breeds dysfunctions, right?
Speaker 2:So weddings and funerals, birthdays, holidays, trauma survivors coming from a traumatic family, especially in their childhood, holidays and all that kind of stuff are mayhem. So she wants to lose weight, but her coping skill is a binge eating disorder. Okay, if she doesn't disclose that because the relationship with the life coach isn't going to disclose that, maybe she's even doing it disassociatively and she doesn't even realize how much she's binging to try to cope, to get through this, this wedding, she's not going to see the results with that life coach that she wants to. And if a life coach doesn't understand the trauma behind what's happening and they haven't built a relationship yet over those 12 weeks where she's able to really tell her what's going on. That life coach is now going to feel like they couldn't get them over the hump and they're like they don't even know what the hump is Right. And so people who are even coaches that can have some trauma informed business practices. That's a whole different thing than being trauma trained and understanding what's going on in the brain, in the nervous system, what's happening with coping skills. Because at that point now we're coaching you through that and my lifestyle design looks a lot like life coaching, right?
Speaker 2:So say you want to work on, you know saving money. You're working for retirement and you've had like a really you know bad marriage and you ended up leaving your spouse and you have absolutely nothing. But you need to rebuild and you're almost in your 60s and you've got nothing for retirement. You want to start this. You know budgeting. There is going to be a bunch of stuff that comes up right, Like if you were under financial control and power from your spouse for all those years, if they used it against you, if they manipulated you with it, like finding wealth is actually going to be scary for you.
Speaker 2:You actually are going to reject that. Even if I helped you get it, tomorrow your brain's going to go. That's not safe, right. And so there's so much to being trauma trained and the work that I do is specifically with trauma survivors. Now I could take someone who doesn't associate with themselves as a trauma survivor and my lifestyle design program can be curated for people that are just under what they maybe want to consider like a high chronic stress, maybe a high chronic stress job, and they don't put enough effort into their sleep or their sex life or their physical health or exercise or nutrition and they just want to work on a couple of those lifestyle design pillars. They might not consider themselves trauma survivors but like high chronic stress, but then I'd go well, why are you at this high chronic stress job Like now I would.
Speaker 2:I'm going to continue to dig because I know there's something happening there. What's the high achievement? What's? What's that? The hyper production? What's going on there that's got you sacrificing your literal physical health, where you're going to die early but you're like striving for physical health and there's something that wants to pursue that but you can't, right.
Speaker 2:And so there's something that wants to pursue that, but you can't, right, and so there's a lot that can happen inside of lifestyle design and life coaching. So I love that and the other side of what you were saying about it never, it, never ending. I do want to encourage people, though, that it does get a lot better, right, and so I think of it like a tornado, right, when you're in it, you're right in it. It's very narrow, it's very swirly, it's very spirally, and you're in it. You're getting flung everywhere, right, but that tornado goes all the way up to the clouds and as it goes up, it widens and it's less destructive right as it goes up, and so the trauma that when you're in it, you can't even really see that you're in it. Then your next level up. You're just aware of it. Now, you're aware of what you're doing to keep yourself safe, and now, as you work through those triggers, the next thing that happens is going to be another layer. But every time you make a pass, even if it's on the same situation binge drinking or a toxic relationship oh, I can't believe I've done this again. Whoa, whoa, whoa. But remember, two weeks ago you said I think something might be wrong with this you. You still went for it, but you saw the red flags.
Speaker 2:That's a new layer of perspective. It's a wider, expanded perspective, and so it does get better, it does get easier and some things do have full and total and complete healing. Um, especially in the work with internal family systems that I've done, you can actually do unburdening, full unburdening of what we call exiles, like those parts of yourself that you've pushed away, that you're afraid to touch, that are so, so painful, full of shame, full of fear. And as you exile those parts of yourself, you can actually go back and find them and help that little it's usually a small child. You're going to go back and help that child and actually do an unburdening and then, from there, all of these protective mechanisms that were trying to keep you from that hurt and that pain and that shame and guilt, they don't need to do their job anymore because the pain is actually healed. So there is a bit of that mixed in with it too. So it's not a never-ending. It's a never-ending journey, but it's not a never-ending destination.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean Does that make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. You know I love the tornado analogy that you use because when you are in the thick of it, it is like I can't see my way out of this. I don't know how this, how I'm ever going to not be this person. When I was in my early twenties I would say was early to to mid 20s was like the thick of me with eating disorder, anxiety, depression. I was on medication for it. I was scared to go off of it. Yeah, the doctors were like you could probably you want to try it out, and I was. I was terrified to go off.
Speaker 1:Yeah because I was afraid. I was like if I stop taking this medicine, my mind will not be my own anymore. I can't go down that path. And that was when I was in the thick of it and I remember the small milestones where I would reach a new level of understanding and be like, oh, you were able to accomplish this small task. Now to the everyday Joe Schmo, who's, like you know, just kind of ticking off the boxes. They're gonna see you just getting up and going to do groceries and be like well, what's the big deal? Like. But because you've gone through what you've gone through in the funnel, getting up and getting yourself out of bed and leaving the house sometimes is like the biggest win in the world. Yes, because for those of us who have gone through this darkness, like just that little glimmer of light is like a huge deal. And when I had gone through it so I did, I had gone, I went to, I started therapy, I think.
Speaker 1:When I was about I've been on and off for ages, but my early twenties I was like I have to make a definitive shift. Because I saw the path that my life was going down and I was like this doesn't seem right. I think I'm going in this other direction. This is not what I want, but I keep doing the same actions that are bringing me further away from what I really want.
Speaker 1:So I did this like massive overhaul of like assessing who is in my life, assessing who's impacting my life, how am I feeling about things? And I was using my feelings as a barometer there and I started going to therapy and I was like I need to stop this. If I'm ever going to survive and be better than what I have been, I need to really start recognizing where things are going wrong. Um, now, that was when I was about 24. Now I'm about to turn 41 and I'm like it's still on this journey because, while that was a very dark time to survive it, I leaned into my ego, like my, my internal ego, and control was like a big thing for me. Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and you mentioned that, like you can't and you kind of have to release it. I didn't, sarah. I didn't really realize how much I was leaning on needing to control everything until about three years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. Now you've got to do something about it. But you know what? Think of all of the other moments to be forth, that that control thing three years ago, all the other moments that you had the aha realizations and we're like, Hmm, I need to change this or this. This didn't work again. Or oh, this toxic relationship turned out the same way as the last one. And each time you get an awareness about something, now you can do something. And that's where we say, like trauma is not your fault, Like what happened to you, you could not have done anything to have possibly deserved what happened to you Good, bad, indifferent and ugly, right. But the healing portion is your responsibility. And then the next step is finding the awareness, because you can't really be responsible for something that you're not actually aware of, Right. And so this is where, if you can have some healthy friends in your life, they can kind of sneak into you, like someone might've been able to point it out to you Now.
Speaker 2:you might've not been ready to actually accept it, but at least you would have been hearing it from multiple people, right, if you were entering into, like a toxic relationship right, I'm just kind of picking on toxic relationships today, but you know, if you have some friends or family that you can trust, or a therapist that you're working with, who's going to go wait a minute, wait a minute?
Speaker 2:Whoa, whoa, whoa. Can we take a breath? Let's take a beat here, because I'm seeing red flags, right? What's going on? What are you actually searching for here? What do you need this for? Right Now you're going, there's going to be a split second of self-reflection.
Speaker 2:It might not land right then, but it's going to get stored and eventually that's going to land. And then once it lands and you're like, oh my God, I'm doing that thing again. Now you are responsible to work, especially if it's a type of coping mechanism that is injurious to other people emotionally or physically or psychologically, right. Some of my clients are like I really have gotten really good at manipulating people and I don't want to be that way, right. And then there's some people that are like serious self-harm and internalization and like you know, the use of drugs and alcohol all of these things are very concurrent with trauma and it's like that's still. That's still injurious for yourself, right, and there's lack of self-worth there. That's happening. That's why you can keep doing it, right. Someone who has more self-confidence but like maybe more rage. They're going to tend to be more externalized and they're going to kind of end up hurting other people. But people that are struggling with their own self-worth and self-confidence. It just makes it easier for them to self-harm right For themselves.
Speaker 2:And this can even look like something like perfectionism, which is in the IFS world. We would call that one a manager rather than a firefighter. There it's still a protective mechanism because you're trying to, like you, control, control, control or perfectionism. Perfectionism you're micromanaging yourself. You know you've got a little OCD about. You know squirreling away money and that's because of a marriage that you had 20 years ago. It's not a thing you have to do anymore, but you're still doing it and it's to keep you from touching that pain that hurt you so long ago. And, like I said, if you're able to heal that pain, that that protector will be able to relax quite a bit. But you can even get to know that protector, get to learn why is it doing this job?
Speaker 2:What does it need to be a little bit less intense, like is this something? Because there's nothing wrong with wanting to do a really good job like perfectionism, right? Perfectionism is the extreme right and apathy would be the other extreme. And somewhere there's a nice healthy balance of saying I'm going to put my whole heart into this but I'm also going to say no to that project, because that one doesn't even excite me. But this one I'm going to work really hard at and that's the end of it, rather than saying yes to everything and having to do everything perfect, and then you end up burning out, which is a type of self injurious behavior. You know, eating disorders can be like that as well.
Speaker 2:Whether you mean to or not, if it's injuring yourself and you're continuing to do it, that's a. That's a coping skill You've. You've gone too far on that spectrum. You can pull it back, though we don't have to be quite as intense. We can just do a really good job, but we don't need to kill ourselves for it. That's part of healing, is just kind of pulling back. We don't have to get rid of all of these protectors. Right, you're calming down of them because they're not so afraid that you're going to get hurt, and that's part of what we call building a self-depart relationship, just getting to know what these protectors are doing for you and why they're doing it. If they can learn to get to know you and you them and you can build some trust so they can trust that you're in charge, that you're in the driver's seat, you're driving that bus, they'll be able to relax a little bit, and that's super helpful because that moves mountains out of your way.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting when you're going on the journey because and the reason why I said it's never ending and I don't want that to be like a deterrent for people what I mean is, like what Sarah is highlighting here is like you're really building on these skills. Yes, because the first time that you recognize, the first time you have that, even if it's a split second of a moment, that, oh, I think this isn't quite right. You just identified it, you just identified it and then the next time you identify it, you're going to identify it faster and then you build on it. So this journey that I've been on, and again it's very interesting because I've always been very interested in psychology.
Speaker 1:I originally started my college, as you know, a psychology major. Like, I've been interested in that and how the mind works. I used to read, for fun, self-help books because I thought it would be like, oh, these are interesting tools. Like I could, I need to like brush up, I'm going to be an adult one day, like I wasn't, like I was a kid when I was reading these things. But the interesting part is, like you know where you take, where you go, once you start to really realize like, oh, this happened. Like how can I, how can I react to this? So there's an.
Speaker 1:I'll highlight, like two areas from my childhood, that my parents separated when I was about 14 or 15. They stayed married for forever, but they were separated and living you know their own lives, but that that separation was really traumatic for me. And when, when I remember, like before the separation happened, a huge thing that used to stick out to me and I don't know why it bothered me so much, I don't even know why I picked up on it, but I picked up on it was that my dad worked and thus controlled the money.
Speaker 1:And my mom was a stay-at-home mom and consistently said. The words consistently were I have nothing, I don't have anything. And so anytime we asked for anything, she always said I don't have anything, I have no money. And the consistent messaging there to me. And then to see and observe how things were between the two of them, my dad had this really big closet with all these work clothes in it and my mom had this little tiny space and and for, but for some reason that seems so small, but it really just dug in deep.
Speaker 1:Now flash forward many years. My husband and I meet, we get together and I immediately want to control the finances. Yeah, and I and even like when I was building my career before I met my husband, I had actually originally wanted to be a writer. That's what I wanted to do creative writing. And then my parents separated and to me, I watched my mom have to take a job where she was only making like $20,000 a year, struggled, lived off of credit cards. And then I watched my father going on all these extravagant vacations and I remember saying to myself I was like I'll be damned if anyone can ever pull that kind of crap with me. So I shifted my focus no longer was like going to do creative writing. I didn't want to do that anymore. I was like I need to make big money, I need to make sure that I can stand on my own. No one can, you know, pull that with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, so then I get married, I have my kids, and I was telling my husband this the one time, because I never relayed this. It kind of just came out one day when I was talking with him and he was like this makes a lot of sense. He was like it makes a lot of sense. He was like and then he started talking about like different things that I've done over the years. We've been together for 15 years and he's like it makes sense why you're so like I need to. I need to be the one who controls the bank accounts. I need to. I need to do this.
Speaker 1:And I'm always really transparent with him because in my head I'm like I don't want to repeat these same mistakes. But it's like stuff like that, if you really sit and think about it and self-reflect, like I'm really big, like I am a big advocate of, like we're always growing, we're always learning. Everyone has trauma you actually have. You want to do better than what your parents did or what, how you grew up like, start to recognize yeah, this is what happened. This was me. How can I do this better?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So what you're talking about there like really lays in really well with IFS, with parts work, right. So, internal family systems there was a part right there, that part that said I will be damned if I let this happen to me. That was a part that developed for you in another person under your exact same circumstances. Their part might've gone. I guess this is just the path that's laid out for me just because you're noticing, right.
Speaker 2:So if you're the female you, you could have easily gone that way, right, and it's more of a. This is my lot in life. There's probably some underlying shame, there's probably a lot of sadness and grief on that part, and so it hurts so much, but then your part's like I'm going to protect that pain. We're just going to, we're going to make it easy to flow through this. This is just admit it, this is what you deserve, this is who you are. This is what's going to happen with you. And you know what, as long as you've got a man to take care of you, you're going to feel secure. That's what that part would have done.
Speaker 1:All of those protective layers would have done that.
Speaker 2:Yours went the other way. That just said I'll be damned if that's me, and maybe there was like a gender recognition that I'm not going to be like my mom. Now there is a fear based. It has a lot more energy to it, right? So listen to the difference in the energy, both protective One's just acquiescing to, like this is who we are, whatever. And you're going to feel that low self-esteem. You're going to feel that low energy around it. You're going to have that heartache around it. There's probably some grief If you ever aren't able to get married.
Speaker 2:That would become a fear like, oh, we've got to find you a man so that you can be taken care of, right, because you're only going to ever make $20,000 a year, right, but it didn't. If you don't have that fear base that ever comes in, it's just going to kind of keep you there at this homeostasis. This is familiar and this is safe and it's very painful. On the other side, it becomes a fear of like this you can't let this happen to you. This is not who this not with. I'll be damned, as that part said.
Speaker 2:And then it built from there these protective mechanisms just control the finances. You can have a husband? Sure, I will. This, protectors, I'm going to allow you have a husband, great, but you better make sure that you're in charge of everything. Oh, also, you're definitely not going to be a writer, cause then you're just going to end up with no money, like like what you're trying not to do and we're not going to do that, so we're going to keep going on like a more career path. All of that were built that moment that that part said I'll be damned if that's you. And now it's got a fear base to keep you away from the pain that clearly your mother struggled with. Right, I have nothing.
Speaker 2:I don't have any money whatever living off of credit card, just kind of being that way, and that she could have healed that, all those parts of herself as well. And you can go through and you can heal all of those parts of yourself when your part makes it a definitive kind of vow like that. Um, there's also a Sarah Payton does work on um, on a resonance, like resonating with your parts and this idea of like contracts and vows that we make with ourselves, and that was like a perfect one. Your part came up with this beautiful vow it will never be me. And from there it had to build an empire to make sure it kept you from that pain.
Speaker 2:Now, if we go back to when you're 14, actually it sounds like even before then, because your mom was actually never in charge of the money and always looked like the poor popper, even though she was married to a man who was well-to-do. You'd go back to those childhood parts, and especially the 14-year-old that saw the devastation when they separated, and we would talk to those parts and let them know you're an adult now. Right, you recognize that that wasn't fair to your mom. I recognize you don't want to be that way and that's okay, but we don't need all of these. We don't need all of this energy to keep you from that. We're just going to move forward in a life.
Speaker 2:Because, who knows, maybe underneath all of that being a creative writer and not making a lot of money that being your dream it would have just looked too close to your mom and that fear wouldn't let you do that. And so it's stifled your dream because it doesn't care what you want to be when you grow up. It just knows what it's trying to keep you from and it's doing it as wholeheartedly well as it can because it thinks it's keeping you safe. It has no idea that it's actually creating a detriment and taking away your creative powers. It doesn't realize that. It just thinks it's keeping you safe.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to hear Well one. It was interesting to hear you talk about the other way it could have gone, because I have actually never given that any thought. Yeah, I've never thought of it that way that I could have fully observed that and thought this is it. I don't have a choice here. And as you were saying that in my head I was remembering all these flashes of like, seeing examples of being like no, not me and like going in the exact opposite direction. There was, even when I was taking my psychology classes. There was, because, along with everything else you know, the depression, anxiety, eating disorders, low self-esteem there was. Obviously there was toxic relationships like you wouldn't believe. And I remember I was in one of my psychology classes and the professor said I can't remember the statistic, but he said something to the effect of like it was like 75% or 80% of women who are in abusive relationships never stop the cycle and it's probably higher. I've said that stat before. I'm sure it's much higher. They can never walk away from it because it's so ingrained in what they've learned and they have these repetitive like just consistently going the same loop. They can never walk away. That was also a defining moment for me where I was like, oh no, not me, I'm going to change this like right now. So the past few years I'm going to change this like right now. So the past few years when I realized what I was doing with the control, which was an epiphany which is crazy to say it now because I'm like this is so obvious but when I realized what was going on with the control factor, it's literally taking me the past like three and a half years or so to make these little adjustments to my everyday thinking, and one of the biggest ones is like literally just asking for help or saying, no, I can't do that. I can't do that. I need help here. I never.
Speaker 1:When my kids were young, I was like I will do it all. I was told previously you can't have a career and have kids. And I was like, guess what? That was another moment for me where I was like I will show all of you I can have a great career and have children. It nearly killed me. Yeah, because I was only sleeping like two hours a night, trying to force this. Yeah, and now, in retrospect, I'm like I could have leaned back, like I could have taken a step back. I didn't have to do that, but it was all of that fear of like. Well, I don't want to end up like my mom, and she's a wonderful person, but I did not want to end up on that path, reliant on my husband, and it forced me into working myself nearly to death, which is what my doctor told me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. So there's this idea of like, what are you running away from and or what are you running to? And so your brain, the brain science behind what you were just talking about is that your brain wants familiar and it doesn't really care about much else because if it's predictable, it's safe. Unpredictable is dangerous, right, and so you go. Well, you didn't do the predictable, but that's because we're putting gender roles on you. Right, you followed in the footsteps of the control and the power that was needed to be the financial controller like your dad.
Speaker 2:It's so something that you were. It was available to your brain because you watched your dad do that and Lord that over your mom, so that your mom didn't have anything right. And now maybe you didn't treat your spouse as crappy about it, but the mechanism was still there that as long as you have this control here, like your dad did, then you'll be safe. And so you wouldn't have just come up with any other kind of scheme, because you have to kind of pull. Your brain is pulling your parts, are pulling from what they know of the brain and what's familiar, and so if you had gone the path of your mom, then now you're sitting in the familiar of. This is just what women do. This is just how it is.
Speaker 2:You know this is just, it's okay because this is safe and familiar and branching out for that. That's what I was saying with, like, lifestyle design. If you're working on a pillar like finances and you, you haven't ever seen healthy finances, especially in a partnership. But I mean somebody who's coming from poverty or someone whose parents lorded money over them, right, they had all the money but, like you, had to be the most compliant human being in the world. You couldn't even have any fun, otherwise they would cut you off or kick you out, or they're not paying for college and they're not going to pay for your wedding, right, and that became a tool. Having money might be the thing that's most scary to you. Or, flip, not having money might be the most scary thing to you, right, it's really what your, what your parts just decide is going to be the best path, and the parts are super strong because they've been doing this for years and years and years. And, fyi, when you get in there with with IFS, your parts are almost not all of them, because some of them are very proud of what they've done, um, and some of them are like I will not give this up, and they're very, very stubborn and it takes a while to get to know them a little bit better before they even show you.
Speaker 2:You have to get the protectors, um, in the modality. You have to get the protectors in the modality. You have to get the protectors permission to get to the exile and to be able to have contact and work with the actual child who holds the pain. But that and that that can take a while, right, and sometimes it happens all in one session. I mean I can sit down with someone in 45 minutes.
Speaker 2:We might've totally had a full unburdening of the of the exile and all three of the protectors are now cool and chill, right, it doesn't always happen like that, of course, but you know, as your protective mechanisms build and build and build, and you ask them you know, why are you doing this job? Then you ask them you know, well, do you want to do this job? And when you get to see they're exhausted and they're tired and they're like, especially if they don't know how old you are. So you actually are talking to the, to a part, we're having communication to them and you can ask them how old, how old do you think I am? So say they're three. They think that you're like eight and you're like no, I'm 41. And they're like oh, my God, I've been doing, I'm still doing this. I can't any, I'm tired and they want to go rest.
Speaker 2:Now some parts after the the exile has had an unburdening, or the part has just had a realization that they can trust you. Sometimes they want to do another job, they have a lot of energy, but they're like well, how can we shift this Right? Like a critic might become more of like a cheerleader. This part of control might just be there to let you know um, hey, remember to pay the bills. Like that's still a good, healthy thing. Can I just help you? And and reminds that like we really should work on your credit, not in a controlling way. I'm not going to be super intense, I'm not freaking out, but like, can I help you? Like, do stuff like that. Can I give you, you know, some tools in that way, and your protector might want to sell off, but a lot of them just want to go take a nap.
Speaker 1:They'll go take a rest.
Speaker 2:They want to go lounge at the beach. They're done, they're exhausted and they're over it. So if they find healing, they're like, bye, see you later. You got this now. Cool, thanks, I'm out. I've seen that over and over between my parts and my clients purchase over and over and over because they're tired. And you're like, yeah, I'm really tired of doing this. I don't want to keep doing this, but it's the only way you know how until you know another way. And that's why you just have to keep, keep moving and keep moving.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite quotes is Dr Maya Angelou says always do your best until you know better than do better. Right, and so we're. We're the version of ourselves. That's the best we're going to be. And we're all still, hopefully, you're doing your work and you're healing and you're growing. And you, you're doing personal development. You, you're in therapy, you're in coaching, you're you're moving into mindfulness and awareness. You're getting better. And so the next day and the next day and the next day, you're going to be showing up better for yourself and better for others and better for the world as a whole. And if everybody were collectively doing that, we might have peace in the middle East.
Speaker 2:But for right now there's just everybody's in like trauma responses. So keep going, never stop. Healing is available and healing is possible. It doesn't mean that everyone is going to buy into that, it doesn't mean everybody's going to sit down at the table, it doesn't mean everybody's going to take a bite of the food. It's, but it's there, it is available and um and an option and possible for every single human being, no matter what kind of trauma and like just degradation abuse. Just you know, infant sexual assault, abuse anything is actually possible.
Speaker 2:I've seen it, I've heard it. On my podcast I talk to so many survivors with stories that I mean some people would want to put a trigger warning on some of them. Yeah, absolutely not. It's called the trauma survivor and we're going to talk about abuse, we're going to talk about some horrible things and it's like if you can make it to the other side, and a lot of times when you make to the other side, you look back and you're like I want to help other people because now I know all this stuff and that's where I found my life to be, you know.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm glad you, you phrase everything, you the way you're phrasing it, because it's there's so many elements to it and there's so many different kinds of trauma. Yes, because you, it runs the gamut, like when I refer to, like childhood trauma, like I just recently, like I've been reading up on things and touching on things that showed, like you know, if you experienced I forget there was like a list of like all these family traits and it was yeah, and it was like, oh, you know, if you, if you experienced this growing up, like guess what? Like you actually grew up in a toxic household and I ticked off like almost half of the things and I was like, oh, my God. And then it also made me take a pause, sarah, and be like, what am I doing at home? Like, because I have three kids, I'm like, how am I?
Speaker 1:Like my husband and I he went, my husband went through trauma like significant abuse, trauma, like physical abuse. When he was growing up, I had more mental trauma and when we came together and we started having kids, we both decide, like he, I have to tell you, I gave him such props because I didn't even know the extent of the trauma that he had gone through and he shared it with me and I was shocked because I know his parents and I'm close with them and you would never guess it today. But guess what, 30 years ago or 40 years ago this is how they were and it really affected him and he was very violent when he was growing up and he was addicted to substances and all this, all the things because of what he went through With Sarah. I was shocked when I realized, when I found out about this, because he is such a caring, loving father.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he told me he was like what I went through animals shouldn't even go through it. And so he flipped it. And so when we got married and we started having kids well, excuse me, when we got, had kids and then got married, we you know he, we're very vocal to each other about like making sure we're stopping the pattern. Yeah, what can we do to do this a little bit better? And he will call me out on things like something that you know a toxic trait that my mom used to do she would bottle everything up and then, like once a month, explode and then once all the steam was let out, she'd put the top back on, laugh it off, never talk about it, wait another four weeks for it. I did not realize I was doing that exact same thing until my husband said, oh, I was telling him about my mom and he goes you do that? Realize I was doing that exact same thing until my husband said, oh, I was telling him about my mom and he goes you do that. And I was like what are you talking about? And he was like, no, you do that, you just did it. And he like pointed it out and I was like, oh my God. So you know there's. There's so much to it and I know like I went on a little bit like a different direction there, but there's so many elements to it that in your daily life, you're going to start to recognize stuff For the listeners who are hearing this and hearing this discussion.
Speaker 1:If they're listening and saying to themselves like you know what, I think I do have something, or I think I'd like to start looking into things like where's a good? Obviously I'm going to point everyone to your website. I want them to go there as a source of truth. Yeah, good, obviously I'm going to point everyone to your website. I want them to go there as a source of truth. Yeah, what can people start doing now? Like they're going to listen to the episode. What's a good first step for someone who doesn't know anything about how to do this stuff, how to navigate?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, here's the thing. It is a really big step to get started, especially if you've had a lot of relational trauma, because it can be really hard to trust people Right, and so that alone is going to be a giant step. So I commend anyone who's even considering it right to move forward and to actually say I want to explore this more. So some of the some of the steps they can do is first take a deep breath, like allow yourself to sit in this moment of going. I might've had some trauma, I might have some stuff that maybe are some protective parts that might need some healing. Just take a minute, just take a beat and just acknowledge that, because that new awareness that came out from what Jenny and I have been talking about, that alone can be a big aha moment and your system might get a little frenzy. So calm, calm down for just a moment and take a breath. Honor yourself. If you're feeling that in your gut, honor yourself by moving forward in some way. And so here's what I'll recommend to people.
Speaker 2:I might I'm not everybody's bread and butter, whatever that sugar and butter, what's that phrase? I'm not everybody's. In my head I was cup of tea, but go on. I'm not everybody's cup of tea. Thanks, we're going to use that one. I don't know where I got bread and butter, but so because of that, I want people to have a place where they can reach out so I can help them find someone who might. Right, I'm obviously a little bit higher energy, right, I'm using my hands if people are watching later when you, when you do some socials of this. But even while I'm talking, right, I'm just a higher energy person. I tend to bend, not in toxic positivity, but we're going to move in positivity and you might not be at the place in your life for actual coaching yet, because coaching is a very collaborative, goal setting, client led, kind of what do we want to work on? Moving forward place, and for some people, they might still be processing a lot of stuff going. I don't even know if I'm ready to like set goals. I just need to like talk this through and that might be more therapy, right? If you're struggling with mental illness, that might be more of a psychiatric route, right, and we can get you some help there. So I would recommend everyone jump on the on my website, which is a full circle wellspringcom. All one word on there.
Speaker 2:A couple of things. Down the bottom right in the little corner, there's a little gift box. You can click on that and you can get a nice PDF that it will talk about nervous system regulation and it's just a bunch of tips and tricks and techniques and explaining a little bit about the autonomic nervous system and why it's why we can self-regulate. And then there's some tools for just little daily practices or little things, even as a rescue if you're feeling dysregulated. Number one, because I think everyone should have that in their toolbox you can email me and just say hey, I heard you and I don't think that you're the right one to work with. But, like, give me a little bit about your situation and what you're looking for and then I can get you some resources.
Speaker 2:I have a resource page on my website and then I offer a 30 minute free consult, Um, so we can sit down and we can chat about if you think I might be right for you to move forward.
Speaker 2:We just kind of meet together, see if I'm going to be the right way to support you and to serve you in the needs that you currently have.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing I'd recommend on the personalized trauma healing system page there's a free personal assessment for where you're at in your lifestyle design and it's kind of based on a couple of it's small maybe it takes four or five minutes to do and it just kind of gives me an idea of where you're at currently and then I can reach out to you because you put in your email so I can reach out to you and give you some ideas of what might be some next good steps for you.
Speaker 2:So that's like a lot of options, but I would just say everything's right there on fullcirclewellspringcom just to give them some tools and some starters. But my goal is to resource people and it will always be my mission. That's how the PTHS system has come about is because I love resourcing and so I don't want to be everyone's resource. I don't. I don't have space for a million more clients. In fact, right now I've only got another couple of them for this quarter that I can even take on. But I will resource you all day long and I will do it for free and I will do it happily. So feel free to reach out to me.
Speaker 1:Sarah, that's a tremendous service that you're providing to people. Because it is and actually I was as you were chatting I'm thinking to myself. I'm like, yeah, like I love that there's a personal assessment on the website that you could access. I literally jotted it down so I can be like, let me, let me put myself in there, because it's hard to even determine sometimes. Like I've been on this journey for 20 plus years, I've been trying to figure out, like the steps that I'm taking, am I doing this right and am I healing properly? And it's hard to navigate your way through that. So, linking up with somebody like yourself, even if you said you're not the right person, you'll help them get to the right person, which is huge. It's a huge deal. Sarah, I greatly appreciate you coming on this podcast.
Speaker 2:Really and sharing. Oh my God, and thanks for being so vulnerable and sharing your story with your listeners. That helps them to connect more to you and to know that you're a source of what you're. You know what you're talking about because you've been there also, and that is so that there's so much healing and having a mutual connection with people. So thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for having me on I. I've loved it.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. Thank you so much, listeners. Thank you for being with us today and we'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker 2:Bye, Bye everybody.
Speaker 1:Take care.
