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Steel Roses Podcast
Steel Roses is a podcast created for women by women. Social pressures for women are constant. Professionals, stay at home moms, working moms, we are here to tell you that you are not alone! This podcasts primary focus is providing real honest content shedding light on the daily struggles of women while also elevating women's voices.
All women are experiencing similar pressures and hurdles, and yet, no one is talking out in the open. If these topics continue to only exist as whispered conversations then we further permeate a culture of judgement and shame.
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Steel Roses Podcast
Breaking Free from the Devouring Mother featuring Elinor Moshe
Elinor Moshe, four-time author and podcast host, shares her transformative journey from outward success to spiritual awakening and authentic self-discovery. Despite accolades and achievements, Elinor realized she didn't exist in her own reality until recognizing the "devouring mother" archetype in her life triggered profound change.
• Understanding the devouring mother archetype and its impact on personal agency
• Why conventional healing models often fail to address deep spiritual wounds
• Emotions as essential compasses for navigating life and reconnecting with self
• The importance of protecting your energy and recognizing toxic relationships
• Finding the right spiritual guides and modalities for your unique healing journey
• How external success can mask internal emptiness and disconnection from self
• Breaking free from the distorted patriarchy and "bro culture" mentality
• The courage required to deconstruct your identity and rebuild authentically
• Recognizing when you're living someone else's life versus your authentic path
• The two most important questions in life: "Who and what am I?"
Connect with Elinor through the links in the episode description to learn more about her work and spiritual guidance.
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Hi everyone, this is Steel Roses podcast. This podcast was created for women, by women, to elevate women's voices. I am very excited to introduce you to our guest today. We have Eleanor Moshe on the line with us. She is a co founder of truth in you and a four times author and podcast host of deconstructing you. Eleanor, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:A pleasure and privilege to be here and I'm very much looking forward to the conversation. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:So, eleanor, I would love for you to introduce yourself to the listeners and tell them about your journey and how you chartered your path, because I think it's going to really be impactful for the listeners to hear how you've gone through.
Speaker 2:Had the career that most people would keel over for. They would have done anything to get into the rooms and trade places as to where I was, and there I was, with a growing void in the heart space and this emptiness, despite the accolades rolling in, podcast was on 150 plus thousand downloads, four times selling books and international collaborations, and the list just goes on and on. This award, that award, my own business left, corporate things that people just work so hard to achieve. And I got there. Yet once I actually looked at the truth of the situation and realized what was going on, once I actually looked at the truth of the situation and realized what was going on, everything was on fire. Nothing was actually strongly built on any foundations that could sustain. Things were crumbling down all around me. And once I started seeing the truth of the situation, triggered by moments of awakening first in 2021, second in 2023, which I'm happy to share they started showing me the truth of the situation, and that was that I'm not even. I don't even exist in my own reality. And here I was thinking that I do exist and I'm making independent, strong independent decisions because I'm a female and I can do what I want. No, no, not when you've never been you, not when your true self has been locked out of your life into the shadows for decades, not when you've come into this lifetime with the karmic template of disempowerment. And the list goes on and on. So it was triggered.
Speaker 2:The deconstruction phase was triggered by I was overseas I was 32, with my parents overseas. I haven't been overseas with friends since I was 21, and that should say a few things. And I was going to dinner with my cousin, which appeared problematic to the mother and I'll say maternal impactor, because it's not necessarily the female who is the birth giver in this life which is the one carrying the wounded. It's bigger than that. We need to look further than the physical person in front of us. Of course, they're very impactful and it was a very ordinary request. I'm going to go out to dinner with my cousin, who I haven't seen. She did not quote unquote. Allow me to walk 600 meters around the corner to go to the restaurant from where we were staying.
Speaker 2:There was crying, there were hysterics. I had to ask my cousin to pick me up and I'll explain later because there was no leaving the apartment and the intensity of that. That's not the first time that that's happened. That's just an expression of the manifestation of my entire adult life and teen life. And it's not until you're out of the environment, which A no one sees and no one hears of and no one validates your experience, and until you're out of the country even to get a bird's eye perspective as to what's happening here, then you don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2:And I was sharing that with my then best friend, now partner, as to what's happening, and he introduced me to the concept of the devouring mother and I quickly looked it up because I'm like this is the resonance, devouring mother. And I quickly looked it up because I'm like this is the resonance. And as soon as I read it, everything just sunk. It explained why I haven't existed in my own reality and I thought I existed at home. I thought that I was existing in my career. My home life was then mirrored into my career as well. So I stopped existing in the only avenue which I thought I had any agency. I did not, because what does a pattern do? Pattern does as pattern is, it repeats itself.
Speaker 2:So the wounding was then being exacerbated in professional arenas. But going back to the moment of awakening that night, I cried from my soul. I have never, ever, cried like that. It was a devastating cry. And I looked myself in the mirror and I said this can't be it for me to have, quote, unquote, so many positive attributes and to not even have the agency to leave the door. Leave through the door when I want to. There were other moments that triggered that, but I returned and the healing started. And when? When the conscious forces I'm paraphrasing this quote by Jung, but when the conscious, conscious forces has have fried themselves, the unconscious forces will come to aid. And that was the moment of conviction. That was the moment when I chose myself.
Speaker 1:I honored my own existence for the first time in decades you mentioned the devouring mother and I had a moment to google it. It's, it's a, it's it's a little bit intense. Like I mean it's a lot intense and I think that this also speaks to codependency and like, like, like, severe codependency. Can you talk a little bit more about the devouring mother and what that is? And then I also want to hear, and I want to commend you for recognizing what was happening, because that is like seeing through a dense fog and like actually waking up and being like hold on a second. This is not what I want. So, devouring mother for the listeners, a little bit more, all right.
Speaker 2:So Carolyn Miss, who's well known for her work with Jungian archetypes and she writes a lot about this and trains as well she describes it as the devouring mother. She consumes her children psychologically and emotionally and instills in them deep rooted feelings of guilt at leaving her or even the notion of becoming independent. So the whole notion of independence is completely knocked out of a child who has been devoured because, for many reasons, the mother does not seem that she can have safety and security on her own accord. So this then, how does it translate into behavior? It seems like lovingly selfless behavior. I will do everything for you except give you the one thing that you need, which is your own independence, which is the most healthy expression that you can have in a relationship. It's this. I will do more and more and more for you. So you have this enmeshment dynamic where you're not sure. You're not sure anymore where she starts and where you end, and where you start and where she ends. It's the complete blurring of all boundaries and you find yourself as this parentified child who has carried too much responsibility that never belonged to them and lives and foregoes dreams, foregoes their own life, because the guilt is so deep-rooted and it manifests in subtle ways, in deep ways, that any expression of independence creates so much fear in the maternal impactor mother in this case that getting out of there, you sometimes need to go cosmically deep to find the root cause that once that is removed, that destabilizes everything and you can't give shallow advice to people in these situations, like set up a boundary, it's like, well, I did actually think of that, or just do this, or just do that. That advice is very flat and it does not account for the complexities, the difficulties that parentified sons and daughters find themselves in, because you know the image that comes to mind with a devouring mother it's like a snake. The more that you try to wriggle out of it, the more that the pressure gets tighter. And not everyone makes it as well.
Speaker 2:So it is an archetype which is fascinating and it starts to explain and validates. That's what it did for me. It started to validate my own experience, because people will not validate in society, especially when you have the outward success. It's like but you're competent, but you have executive functioning well, it's like, well, no, I don't. There's many faculties that are offline, and once I started lifting the hood as to what was actually playing out in my split reality. It it was, you know, that Elmo meme where it's sitting in the fire. That was me. It's like everything is on fire and nothing is right, because I've never existed in my own reality, as do many children who take on the incorrect energetic exchange.
Speaker 2:Energy flows, rabbi, something Charles Schwab I'm not I'm not pronouncing that correctly, I'm very bad at quoting people but he talks about the concept that energy flows from parent to child. It does not flow the other way. And think about it. The parents they decided to have a child and if they didn't have, decide to have that child out of pure love, so they brought it into it as a retirement plan. They brought it into it to fix their marriage. They brought in a child to, you know, create purpose where there was otherwise. Avoid. All of this already has expectations on the child. And then there's different archetypes, that, of course, the feminine also plays out in their distortions, but this was the one that that should excuse my coughing.
Speaker 1:I'm like it's the season and I'm getting a little raspy. Um, I, first I want to. I want to take a moment and recognize you for being able to see in the moment, like oh my gosh, this is me. And then also recognizing like okay, I have to do something here, and we I mean in our pre-chat, like we had talked a little bit about like how difficult that is, because it's it feels like, and I I think what I had said was like it's like walking into, you're in a dense fog and it's very hard to see your way out of something like that, because this is all you've known your whole life. Some people never realize that they go their whole lives permeating this model and then they further bring this model along into their own families and their own children. So you have, at this point, successfully severed that line and are, I'm sure, still working through it, because it's a daily thing, it's not something that happens overnight. So I do want to point that out too For the listeners who are listening to this conversation and being like, oh my gosh, wait.
Speaker 1:I think that this sounds familiar, or this, like suffocating feeling, sounds familiar. That's how I used to think of it as a suffocating feeling. It's those shoulds, and you might recognize it as you're listening to us talk about this, but then you also are unsure of like, well, how would I even navigate out of this? Because it's not as simple as like, oh, just set some boundaries, you'll be fine. Okay, good luck. That's not really how it works, because it's like time, consistency, practice, years of internal work, really like it takes time and it's a daily thing. So you, you had this moment and it was a triggering moment where you're like I need to do something and then it from there. I think, from what we've talked about, you basically tore it all down. You kind of threw everything away that you were working on. So I want the listeners to hear this journey of yours that you went through, because this is it's intense, but look at where you are today. So, yes, please continue.
Speaker 2:If you're in prison, you don't go to the prison guard or the chief warden whatever you want to call them and say hello, can I please have my freedom back? Can I please have 10% of my freedom back, like, I'm in prison here and I don't know how I got here. I also didn't do anything wrong. Prison here and I don't know how I got here. I also didn't do anything wrong, but can you grant me some? What are they going to say? Yeah, sure, here's the key to the front gate and let everyone else out whilst you're with it. It's not how it works. You don't negotiate with you, don't negotiate back for your power. You go on a full reclamation journey and you don't know where it's going to take you.
Speaker 2:A few things happened beforehand it was last year, yeah, as I was turning 32 through again, universal coincidence. There's no such thing as coincidence, sorry synchronicities. I had an astrology reading and I thought she was going to come and validate everything and just tell me what I already know. Eleanor, you're successful and it's just a matter of time. And you just got to keep on hustling. And you just. Eleanor, you're successful and it's just a matter of time. And you just got to keep on hustling and you, just, you know, wake up at 5am. Like you know, the distorted patriarchy the bro way of living.
Speaker 2:And the first thing she said is like your mother wound is the highest point on your chart, which it is. And I'm like how do you know this? And she was like she was just dropping truth bombs after truth bombs and I spun for 10 days because what I was being invited to do was commit identity suicide. And that is the most fearful thing, because even then she's like this construction stuff you're doing, it's done. You're going to be unrecognizable in five months from this point. So we're recording in December, unrecognizable in five months from this point. So we're recording in december the you know new astrological cycle next year, march, april, around that time you're going to be unrecognizable. I already am. I don't need to wait for that point in time. And all of this was just. This was elicited so much fear because what I was being invited to do was something that there is no concept, no support, no idea how to do it, nothing. That there is no concept, no support, no idea how to do it, nothing. It's just staring into a void and the void stares back at you. So what did I do? I shut it down. I shut it down completely. And she said when I go overseas, a conversation will happen with mother and I'm like I don't believe you. We've never conversed about this and even when we had it's I should just talk to a wall. I had that energy about me and of course the conversation did happen. So I shut that whole model down because it did not fit into my version of reality. But of course it was being seeded in my unconscious and when the conscious forces fry themselves I'm paraphrasing a Jung quote here the unconscious forces come to end. So I, a few months after coming back, got myself into position and I'm like I don't even know what I need anymore. But I do need help here. I don't even know what's going on.
Speaker 2:Astrology was the first onboarding language which started framing my direct experience of reality and what was happening. That has never been done beforehand, and we started working with shadow archetypes. It was phenomenal of an experience. It was challenging to see your own self dead straight in the eye week after week and excavate, just smash, smash through everything. And I was phenomenal with this and I still am. I have an appetite for this. I love this. I, you know, I love the underworld and the heavy, but you need to balance it out because you can't live there. But I have a large capacity for all this stuff and she was completely surprised that I could go through this stuff but also had my then best friend, now partner, as a support, because going through any of this alone is it's so. Astrology was a first language which started giving frameworks and models to my experience why certain things happened, why they did not happen.
Speaker 2:So this year is my Pluto retrograde. Pluto is a planet of the underworld, so sex, death and transformation, and it's been in retrograde, so going backwards all my life. But this year has been the year of corrections. And what will it do? It will build you up to be as big as it needs to, and then it's going to topple you down and even, just from a career perspective, the brand that I had built, the accolades of success.
Speaker 2:I remember expressing dissatisfaction with everything and people were like but why? You built this, you did this. You know the sunk cost fallacy. It's like just because I built it, do I have to maintain it now for the rest of my life? All of this started coming up and it took around nine months before I could say I can't get rid, not rid of this. But I need to put this to rest, at least whilst other parts are still being mourned, grieved, coming to light.
Speaker 2:Even it was not. The fear was all encompassing. It was conversations upon conversations, and I also started then looking for modalities to help access the unconscious kundalini awakening breathwork, 9d breathwork, reiki not reiki, but chakra clearing, meridian grid alignment you name the modalities. I've just about been there as well, because we need the right tool for the right job. There were things that were so deep within that I needed to access, and every one of those helped. There was no, not, not. Any model I don't believe is complete when it comes to deconstructing self. We need the right tool for the right job at the right time, with where you are and that changes. You know, could I have seen a shaman as soon as I started this? Absolutely not because I wouldn't have had the intention, the conviction to believe in it, but when?
Speaker 1:I was ready for it, it was powerful.
Speaker 1:I think that that's very important there, what you just said, because people will and myself included, if you have a sense so my journey was a little bit less intense maybe, but, like, the elements are there and there's a lot of through lines from what you went through. And what I want to point out to people is sometimes it's not a huge splash moment where you're like, oh my gosh. You know, sometimes it's small inklings of like something's not quite right here. Now, the other element to this is you might go down a path of like, well, something's not right, I'm going to try out, you know, visualizations, or I'm going to try out meditating, or I'm going to try out that even like, and you're trying to like tap into different things. And what Eleanor is saying that's key here is that not everything's going to work in the moment. Sometimes you have to build on your skills for being able to do this kind of work for yourself and you have to build on your knowledge base, because you can't dive into step 15 and then come back and be. It's not possible because you're not going to really understand and appreciate it. Now, my journey through recognizing where I was in my life and recognizing when things weren't really in flow and like what I was going to be doing. It took. I want to say it was like a journey of like 15 or 16 years that I've been on, because it started when I was about 25. And I started to kind of recognize things and I was like I know that there's something not right here. I need to like kind of reevaluate. And it's been like an ongoing thing for majority of my adult life, like making sure that I am in tune with myself and actually being authentic. And what Eleanor said earlier, too, is that I am in tune with myself and actually being authentic. And what Eleanor said earlier too, is that, like a lot of us think that we are being ourselves and we're, you know, showing up as ourselves every day, but we're actually not.
Speaker 1:And what I want the list I want the listeners to reflect on as they're listening to this is how much of your life is a should. That's how I think about it quite a bit. What are you doing right now? That's I should do this, and then really, if that should is there and dominant, then it might not really be something that you really want to do, and that's where you have to look at your internal feelings and take stock Like a big thing that I did and I started doing it when I was 25. And I've done it now for all this time. I just turned 41. So I've been doing it for like half my life now was. I will take a minute and I'll take an internal inventory and say, like Am I happy with this right now? Like, do I feel good about this?
Speaker 1:For the first half of my life, a lot of what I did was I need to do this, I have to show up to this, I should be doing this, I should be the good daughter, I should be the executive, I should graduate from college because I should get a job and I need to be in corporate. I need to do this and I need to make money. It just snowballed and snowballed and snowballed and flash forward. I got to 37. So a little bit later than you, I cut to 37.
Speaker 1:And I had this like explosion, epiphany moment where I've done very well in my career my professional career and I was very proud of my trajectory and how much money I was making and I was. I have my husband and my kids and we have a beautiful family and this and that. But this job was like killing me and it was basically like I felt it starting to drain away from my life and my soul. I was on this particular project and my kids were all pretty small, they were like four and five years old and I was working. At that point, I want to say, like it was like a 60 or 70 hour week, like it was a tough, tough job that I was doing, and three weeks of that passed and I came out of the end of it and it was like a punch in my stomach because my kids all look big. My husband was not happy. He's like what the hell's going on? Like you can't do that, you can't disappear for three weeks into work, like. And I was crushed. And that was a huge triggering moment for me because for most of my life I was like you have to love your work, do your job, do your job, you're invested in all this. And then all of a sudden I was like well, wait, no, like this can't be it. Like this, this can't be it. I can't be living to work Like that's not what life is. And it started me on a journey of self discovery.
Speaker 1:And that's actually how the podcast started, because I had this moment and the original podcast, the first season one was myself and my cousin and she was on board with me as a co-host and I kept saying I said to her I was like I have to do this, like I keep having this like sense of urgency to start a podcast, and so it took me a couple of months to kind of get up and running and once we launched, I had this and I get it now as I talk about it in my soul. My soul gets excited when I talk about the podcast and when I think back on those early days when we started and it's amazing how this one moment from this one job that I had pushed me towards well, let me see how to do a podcast. And I Googled it. Now, listen, this is the real interesting thing and I haven't talked about this in a while, so I'm actually kind of excited to talk about this. The interesting moments that kind of all lined up was I was like I'm going to do this podcast. I Googled how do you podcast? That's literally how I started how do I start a podcast. And I came across a podcaster who had a podcast guide and I was like, oh, let me look at this. But then when I started looking at all her work, I was like, oh wait, she doesn't just podcast, she does other stuff too. What else does she do? And I started looking into her and she did coaching for spiritual coaching and guidance. I ended up signing up for this huge package with her and doing this live online course with her and Eleanor.
Speaker 1:When I tell you, the journey that I went down and the spiritual journey and the awakening and finding me again was so powerful and impactful that it has changed my entire life for the better, that it has changed my entire life for the better, like it has shifted everything for me and my family and put us on an entirely different path than what I was on, and one of the most powerful meditations that I did in the early days which, by the way, when I started this journey and this work, every time I did something that tapped into like the center and the soul, I would be like crying into like the center and the soul.
Speaker 1:I would be like crying, like hysterically, and I don't know if you had the same experience, but it was like. It was like a release right. Like every time I tapped into another like artery, basically of my soul. It was like spilling forth and I remember telling the other people in the course I was like is everyone else? Like sobbing all the time, like what is that? You had the same experience. I'm going to pause there for a minute, but it was like a release. It was this massive release as I was going on this path.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, just your energy when you're talking about. It's wonderful to say, it's wonderful to experience with what you're saying beforehand and I'll answer. I'll mention that which ties into the response to this question. But conventional models deal with only the mind. It's like you just reprogram your mind and all of that stuff. It's like just affirm your way out of this. It's like there are some situations which were not born in the 3D reality. Therefore, I cannot affirm my way out of it. I cannot just hustle and grind my way out of it.
Speaker 2:These problems were established outside of the ego sitting here having a conversation. They were born outside of the 3D and they need to be resolved outside of the 3D. So most conventional models are quite shallow and they work for shallow problems because they offer shallow solutions. But when you have a deep problem you need deeper solutions and that's where the spiritual realm, which is not something out there like spirituality, is reality. This podcast is a spiritual experience that we're having and that was a big frustration for me, because I did the journaling, I did the affirmations, I did the vision board, I tried to do all of that and it was mechanical and it fell on its face.
Speaker 2:But also through the past life regressions that my partner and I deliver on each other. Yep, you need to dream. Of course you do. But my imagination faculty has been atrophied because of the situations that I find myself in, so of course I could not get the imagination muscle started. Or the car it was not going to work because it has been damaged and atrophied. It's offline, so of course I cannot dream. So only recently that faculty has started coming back online with the emotional attachment, because for me, emotion, everyone is emotional, but for me emotions are my compass and to not have those, of course I can't orient myself in the world.
Speaker 2:So when I had a catharsis of the heart, realizing that I have one, it was tears, it was, it was all sorts of emotions and it was even learning to honor their place, because the distorted patriarchy will knock that out of you, making you perceive it as a weakness. But without it you can't orient yourself in reality. And in my recent journey to the underworld, my guide, call it like the ceo the general manager of the place was furious with me because it's like you've fucked up so many times because we can't get to you, how do they get to us through emotions? So when you feel the rage in the moment. That's your compass, and conventional models completely disregard the body and when we drop into what our body is carrying, experiencing for the first, realize that or awakening a hand with the body was. The body's not here, it's stuck on some other timeline, it's not present with you. So, yeah, we think that I'm here right now. I can move my hand, that the body is here. It ain't here.
Speaker 2:So how can you possibly move in the world, live your best life, all of these things that are being marketed and and you know, sold and packaged in a $99 course to you? None of that is happening until your emotional body, your physical body, your spiritual body and your mental body are not here right now. Now, this doesn't mean that you need to be 100% whole in order to manifest, in order to live your life. No, it's not if, when and then I'll do it. No, but to experience the totality of your birthright and to connect to your godhood, that's what it does require.
Speaker 2:So emotions are imperative, and I've learned to honor them, and when they're and I've had moments where they're all at the door wanting to come out it's like well, I don't know how to get you out either, but it's a whole language and landscape that has been atrophied and it is evil. Doesn't even cut it as to what has happened to the divine feminine and the divine masculine, but that's a conversation in continuity. So emotions for me have been the first time I cried after a very long time and I did it by myself. I was so, I was so proud, I was so relieved. I'm like this feels good and that starts bringing other things online that I didn't know I have access to, and it keeps on blooming from there.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because for a really long time I used to say it was like a joke, but at the same time it wasn't a joke and now I'm like I try not to say this anymore. I used to say I cry in the shower like a winner. Basically, hide your emotions, Do what you need to do all day long Hustle. We keep joking about it, we keep referring to bro culture and I just want to say for the listeners what we mean when we say that. If you haven't heard me say before, bro culture is like that hustle, you have to hustle. You got to get up at 5 am and this and that and you got to be like you know cold calling and dming and you know it's not authentic. It's like just you're just beating a bat against a brick wall until something breaks. You know like that's not real, like that's not the path you want to go down.
Speaker 2:before you continue, I'll just add that spirit doesn't like it.
Speaker 1:So throughout past life, spirit.
Speaker 2:From a spirit's perspective, we're all just cosmic children and they're probably looking at us going. What are you doing? What are you doing? Spirit does not like that model. It doesn't like the energy. It is soulless, it is devoid. There is a time and space for some of that. It's not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater, kind of thing, but as an entire paradigm. It's when you actually connect with the energy.
Speaker 2:And once I got out of it, there was something that happened which I was invited back into it and I thought it was okay to do. It was not okay. I experienced the same physical symptoms I guess you can call it, from when I was in there. I could not wake up in the morning. My legs could. I could not function. Like my legs could not move, they were. It was like trying to move your legs with steel cap boots Just fatigue, just brain fog. Couldn't even do basic functions like that was the life that I was applauded for. It was a trickster archetype. It's like the more you do that, the more you'll get applauded and so on, so forth.
Speaker 1:But please do go on well, the other thing, too, is like people are looking at the outside and they're looking at, like the because you've mentioned a few times, like, yeah, like we have our physical bodies, but this is not the real stuff. Like the because you've mentioned a few times, like, yeah, like we have our physical bodies, but this is not the real stuff. Like, the real stuff is the spiritual and tapping into the divine and tapping into your energy, and a lot of people have I mean, the majority of the masses have completely lost touch and it's only getting worse and worse the more that people are tapping into social media. And I consistently will say that, because the more people are looking at other people's you know, picture perfect lives, the more the people are just really looking at like the outward, the money, the material items, like none of that is actually real. What you really want to be tapping into is your true spirit, your actual energy.
Speaker 1:One thing that I wanted to note here, too, is like so I had said I made the joke like I used to say, you know, cry in the shower like a winner, and I was very much on the path of like don't show your emotions. You got to be strong. You have to be strong. You got to suck it up, swallow it and then you can deal with it later. Well, that's incredibly horrible. So don't do that. Like that's so toxic.
Speaker 1:I'm very annoyed with myself that that was even what I was doing, but I do wanna also note there is actually have been scientific studies that show that when you're feeling different emotions and you release that through tears and you actually allow yourself to cry, the molecular makeup of your tears is different, dependent on what emotion you're feeling in the moment. So crying is actually incredibly cathartic. That's why we actually feel better after you cry, because you are releasing toxins technically from your body. So for the first like 25 years of my life or 30 years of my life, I was like don't cry, suck it up. And now I'm like, oh, my God, god, I had all these toxins flowing so that I wanted to put out there. It's good to cry, let it out. I do it now all the time and my family makes fun of me so there's that it could be yelling it could be.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's not about like you know. Yeah, crying is one way. If that works, great, if your body wants to yell. And you know, a rage song that I have is jimmy and twirl pain. It's like when I want to get get into rage mode then you do that. It's honoring all the seasons, it's honoring the full spectrum and knowing that that is where the power actually lies yes, exactly, honestly, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:There there's so much power within and I know that you know people get a little like, oh well, there's, it's BS. You know, I've done affirmations every morning. It's nonsense Okay. But if you're just standing in a mirror saying to yourself you're a millionaire, yes, that's nonsense.
Speaker 2:You're unconscious.
Speaker 1:That's not. That's not it. Eleanor and I actually chatted about this a little bit before we started recording today that the market is so saturated right now and for the low cost of $99.99, you can work with anybody to change your life at this point. There's the right match, the right type of method and just the right time in your life. So there's a lot more to it than just like, oh, I'm just gonna get up and say affirmations that's not. For a really long time I thought that's what it was too. That's not really what it is. So I wanna say that like there's a deeper, more meaningful thing here and it's not topical, and it's not like applying sunscreen, like you really have to dig deep if you really want to make a definitive shift. But it is possible. I've done it, eleanor has done it. There are a lot. There are countless people that have actually done it successfully. You just have to find the right people for it. Eleanor is one of these people. So there's that.
Speaker 1:And then the other thing I wanted to touch on too, because I think we do get caught up, and I'm going to refer to the bro-ness again. Even myself, I get tripped up in the patriarchy, right. So I had this phone call over the summertime in 2024, summer 2024, where I was like I want my podcast to grow. What can I do to make the podcast grow and how can I get more listeners? So I started reaching out to other podcasters. I'll be interviewed on all these other podcasts. Like, let me again like the hustle culture, which again like the hustle culture, which, again, this is not really what we need to do here. But I had it in my head and I was like, let me do it. So I connected with this podcast group and I was like well, they'll interview me.
Speaker 1:So the line opens up and it's this young guy. I think he was like late twenties ish. He looked, he looked fairly young and immediately I sensed the energy was bad. But I was like no, you're, maybe you're just being an old fart, jenny. You know like you got. You got to get with the young people. You need to, you need to do this. So I'm on the line and immediately he's like well, what's your funnels? Like what funnels?
Speaker 2:are you?
Speaker 1:using. I was like, well, I have funnels, but I'm not really like using it because you're not using your funnels, my God. Well, what are you doing with your video content? I was like, well, I'm not really, I'm not. I was like I'm not using my video content. You're not using your video content, my God. You're just sitting on all this stuff. What's wrong? What are you doing for your social media? I was like what? And so like I end the call.
Speaker 1:And then he even went so far as to attack I have my own LLC, I have my own business. And he even went so far as to attack how it's called. He was like, well, you can't call yourself consulting. You can't say that. And I was like why not? I'm like, why not? You need special qualifications for that. I was like I do, oh, my God. And I hung up the line and I was like why did I let this young person? I have to tell you. My immediate reaction was I felt bad and I was like Jenny, what are you doing in this space? You don't know what you're doing. Maybe you're on the wrong path here. And I had this whole, not a whole day, it was maybe an hour, because I'm pretty in tuned with recognizing these things now and I hung up and I was like, wow, that felt shitty.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I just kind of kept thinking about it. I'm like that felt like crap. I'm like, well, jen, maybe you're not doing this right. Maybe you need to do this differently. Maybe you need to be on social media all the time posting things. Maybe you should expand and be posting 20 times a day.
Speaker 1:And I started getting kind of paranoid about it and then I thought to myself, but that's not really in alignment with what we're doing here. And you know, he even went so far as to say, like well, you're supposed to be charging your guests. I was like what I'm supposed to charge my guests? And I've had people say to me like, oh well, how much do you charge to be on your podcast? I'm like I don't charge to be on my podcast, I want you on my podcast, everybody on my podcast. Come and talk on my podcast.
Speaker 1:Like there's all these elements that came out of that conversation where I was like at first I felt kind of crappy, but then I was like, but no, the people who are supposed to hear this podcast are going to find this podcast and that energy is going to align just because of what I'm putting out there. And you actually mentioned it before when I started talking about my original journey with the podcast and how I started, and you actually just said your energy. I can sense it. There is more to this life than I need to beat people over the head, because what you're going to do there, if you're trying to do something like that, let's say you're a content creator and you're listening to this conversation.
Speaker 1:If you're trying to beat people over the head with your messaging, that is not real. You might have a million followers, but those million people are following you just because, and they're not actually engaging with you. This is not real. You might have a million followers, but those million people are following you just because, and they're not actually engaging with you. This is not the audience that you want. And, eleanor, I think that's kind of what you went through was that you had this massive following. You had this massive life that you had really like built up. People were looking at you like wow, like look at how successful she is, but the reality was inside. You weren't being Eleanor not at all.
Speaker 2:She did not exist in. It didn't exist. It did not exist because the, the four-year-old child, has said it's not safe to be here, we need to be someone else. Yes, and then that's the foundation, which wasn't based on truth. So then you slip into these disempowering narratives, whether it's the, whether it's the distorted patriarchy that only shows you, this is how you quote-unquote, succeed. And whether it's the complete opposite, the toxic feminine, where it's like screw man, screw this. You know all of that. So it's distortions all around. You just keep on slipping in to undesirable situations, professionally and personally. You attract people out of your trauma box. You compromise all the way down.
Speaker 2:And it is extremely challenging because there are not many healthy models of anything around. You know, my partner and I don't have a model of healthy relating yet in our heart, of hearts, of hearts. That is the one thing we held on to and we did not compromise on that because a part of us knew that everyone around us has it wrong, you know, in their own way maybe not wrong, but unconscious which is where all the problems stem from. So I completely understand because it's like okay, well, I'll, I'll remove that. What do I do instead? And you know my shadow work coach she just said it very openly it's like you have everything that you need, all the gifts, our medicine, it is within us. Do we need education? Do we need legal basics? Do we need how to learn, how to structure and systemize? There are things that have to be learned, of course, absolutely. But our gifts, that which we are here to share with the world, that's embedded into us, we have forgotten, and you know, you just see, become a xyz in 10 days and do all of these things. Like I remember as well, like I went to a nine, uh, I went to a 90 breathwork. I'm like, wow, this is great. And I can like sign up, but they were pushy, they were great about it, they were all good, but I was like what am I doing here? Like I'm I'm again trying to plug in someone else's something into my reality, and that's not how it works. You cannot all of these, whether it's breathwork or whatnot. They are powerful tools, but they are not you either. There is that which is the alchemy of you, which you are here to be in the world, and then everything else magnetizes around you, like in the same way that through our path.
Speaker 2:We had a phenomenal experience with qhht. It was four hours after that which we found ourselves in a relationship after never having one all my life, let alone having gone on a date or a second date or a dinner date. I didn't even know what all of that was, and so that modality is part of our toolbox because, again, not one model is suitable at this point in time for this, for whatnot. It was in a regression that it's like, okay, now's the time to dream. It's like, okay, well, I know how to do that. I'm going to pick up different tools now, but when I needed to you know heavy duty, consciousness, work I could. Dreaming wasn't, it wasn't the time for it either.
Speaker 1:There's definitely something to be said about building your skills as you go and understanding a different path. So I know, when I started this whole journey, I remember I called my cousin and I was like, oh my God, I've been doing this wrong this entire time. I was like I didn't know and that was like that was a little under three years ago, when I had really started this path. One of the most important meditations because you've mentioned something a couple of times that I want to share this with you One of the most important and impactful meditations that I actually did early on in the journey was the coach I was working with.
Speaker 1:She had everybody get into a meditative state and then she said I want you to picture your younger self, you know, at whatever age she comes to you, but picture child Jenny and coming to you and talking to you. What would little Jenny say? Again, this is one of those moments where I'm in my backyard and I'm like, let me do this meditation and I'm crying hysterically because I haven't thought about little Jenny and what she wanted 30.
Speaker 1:At that point it was like 37 years. I hadn't thought about her at all. And so I'm doing this meditation and little Jenny just wanted to help people. She just wanted to help people. She was actually very altruistic. She wanted to work with the homeless. She wanted to tutor. She really wanted to go to soup kitchens and help people. She wanted to. She wanted to be a shift in the world for the better. She wanted to show up like that.
Speaker 1:And I had lost that part. And so I I'm actually getting a little choked up talking about this. But I I came out of the meditation and I was like, oh my God, like I've really wanted to help people at my core and I lost that through my parents' divorce, the traumas that you go through as a woman in general. There's these moments that you go through and I had lost that sense of myself where I was like I really wanted to be here to help people and I wanted to show up with my energy and be like I'm here to be a resource for you. And I started leaning into that more.
Speaker 1:Every once in a while I would do that meditation over again and kind of gut check. And then I started thinking like, would little Jenny be proud of this? Would little Jenny, you know, would teenager Jenny be proud of this? Who was I all those years ago? And like it has been I've said it a couple times it's been life changing doing this work and, and you know, people are like jumping on this big bandwagon, like, oh, I want to.
Speaker 1:You know, manifest abundance and you know, whatever these are such buzzwords now that I don't like saying it, I don't like talking about manifesting anymore because I'm like, oh gosh, it sounds like such like crap the way that people have been putting it out there. The work if you find the right guides and that's where, like, eleanor comes in here and her energy is so good and I will a hundred percent back her up here because you have to find the right person for you. You have to do the actual work, because it's not just topical. You do have have to think to yourself like who am I really Like? What have I done this whole time and what path do I really want to go down to be able to get to like really being myself?
Speaker 1:Once you tap into your actual, authentic self, you will see shifts, like big shifts, and the last three years I can attest like has been so transformative and I'm in such a place right now where I wake up every morning. I'm like I feel so blessed. I'm not a millionaire, I'm not making loads, I don't have millions of downloads on my podcast, but I feel blessed because I get to connect with people like Eleanor, I get to connect with all of my other guests and if there's just one person that's hearing this episode and walks away and says, like, let me, let me take a look at these links that Jenny put in the resources, let me, let me see what else I can do to help myself If one person's life changes because of this conversation. That is what I'm here for. That's the whole purpose of this podcast.
Speaker 2:That's when you create from such a place, even accessing creation energy, even that is offline, it is challenging to access when you are in such deep survival mode, so many. Some parts of us may be thriving, but other parts of us are atrophied, neglected and abandoned and meshed, being siphoned by the use of others around us. So they're using our own power or, you know, our own energy, then accessing creation energy and creation without limitation, which is our birthright. Of course, people are stuck and it's you can't just tell them to just go out and do something. They may not have access to that energy, and that's what I really appreciated with astrology. It started showing that.
Speaker 2:You know, why does Jenny have this ability to do this so naturally, same as human design, which we also work with. Why can this person just do this? And for me it's so hard. You know my partner's really playful and light, but for me to access that same energy, for me it's intercepted. I don't have that same access as well. So that's what came to me when you were mentioning that as well, and I like also that you said it's guides, because guides are oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't say the way of the future, but that's where things are going, because all healing is self-healing and the deeper that you can enable someone else to access within themselves and to get to higher realms, like higher and deep are the same.
Speaker 2:When we're talking about the spiritual work, that's where it has to, that's where it goes, because even when I first came across the concept of the inner child, it was devastating and I put out photos of me that I haven't looked at for years and that, forgetting that I did this to a child who was so pure and who deserved so much better. And before I go into that, some people might be listening and go well, that wasn't too bad. Comparing someone's direct experience of their reality to someone else's is so invalidating and crippling to the person who had that experience. Because what my soul came into this lifetime, for the soul chose that the soul is against, like we did soul contracts as well. That's how I came across it, because it's like there were decisions made and I wasn't even at the meeting and I'm the one having to and I'm the one here trying to figure it out and reverse engineer everything. But my direct experience is you know, I did not incarnate as a third world child or I did not incarnate to learn certain lessons.
Speaker 2:So when people, especially in the journey and it happens quite early on you may have experienced it as well, but that just invalidating your experience and how you are trying to feel is onto itself causing trauma. You know it's still. You know when people saying, oh, just just get, just get over it, just integrate it. It's like you try, integrate you. Yeah, there's a lot of flat advice when it around this because, again, the language and people I've not visited that far deep into themselves. So, guides is a guide. I love that word, I love the energy of the word and those that have truly done the work. You can't fake it. So it's yeah, I like how you said that there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and honestly, it's real. And that's also, like you know, it's interesting because the energies will align and you'll be able to sense, like, if you're seeking a guide, right, like, let's say, like you're listening to this, you're like you know, I really do want to work with someone and you're seeking someone out. You can sense, almost in the first couple of minutes of a conversation, sometimes like, go to your. We talked about feelings and how. That's like your barometer, that's like a step 1.1. In like, recognize your feelings. Do you feel good in this moment? That's like a huge like item where you can say, like, okay, now I can use this as my internal guide. Is this moment authentic to me? Is this really where I want to be? Is this conversation really what a conversation I want to be having? Like that's really your first stop.
Speaker 1:And that applies to, again, your profession, your romantic relationships, it applies to your family relationship. Just because it's family doesn't mean that it's not toxic. Oh, it's like ever. I remember growing up and I was like, oh, you know, your blood, blood is thicker than water. Like you know, your family's, your family always show for your family, doesn't matter what they do. And I'm like kind of does, because, like toxic family members that are your bloodlines, I love you from a distance. I will. If anything ever happened, I'll be there.
Speaker 1:But we don't have to be in each other's energies all the time because we're not in alignment with each other and I'm not at a at this point in my life. I'm very protective of my energy space. My husband and I are very protective of, like, who we invite into our space, how we allow people to interact here, because we work so hard as a couple, as a unit and as a family unit to make sure this is a peaceful household and make sure that we feel the energy is good energy here. And it's very interesting because there have been instances where we've had, you know, parties and this and that and we actually can feel the depletion afterwards. It's very interesting because at the end of the day we're like we can sense when it's gone good and we're like, oh, this felt good or whatever. But then we can also sense when there's been a body present and it only has to be one, that's right, it only has to be one body and when that one body is present and we feel that that pull, we both recognize it immediately. My husband's very in tune to that kind of thing. So we both are like, oh, this is a bad energy, like okay, let's move on. You know like it's you have to pay attention and it sounds.
Speaker 1:It might sound silly if it's the first time you're hearing something like this, but it's incredibly important. That's right. I like I've so enjoyed this conversation with you. I could probably talk to you for like six hours, like straight, and we could do like it doesn't happen all the time to me, but when it does happen, I'm like, oh my gosh, we can keep going. Um, do you have any, anything that you would really like the listeners to walk away from with this episode? Is there something that's in your mind right now? Tip of your tongue. Like I really want the listeners to hear this.
Speaker 2:There's two most important questions in the experience called life, and that's who and what am I? The relentless pursuit to answer that across all time, space continuum, across all dimensions, across all lifetimes, so on, so forth, is the most valuable thing, because what else is there for a self to do other than experience it, other than to experience it? It's other than to experience itself over and over and over again. Why do we incarnate? There is so much to experience, and that's what this journey is about. So falling in love with the discovery is so important on this journey, because only then can you arrive at truth. And when you arrive at truth, the illusions dissipate, and that's how you get to the richer expression of you.
Speaker 1:Thank you that was so well put. Listeners, I'm going to link all of Eleanor's information in the description of this episode. I want you to look into her, I want you to check her out. Her energy is really good. I know you're not with me, live, but her energy is really good. I know you're not with me, live, but her energy is really fabulous for a while anyway. So, yeah, I mean, and honestly, if you're, you're in a point in your life where, like I'm, I'm unhappy, there is a way to get yourself back in alignment. There is a way to do this, and it doesn't have to be this shockingly awful event. You can just make the decision today things I want things to be and you can just start taking those baby steps, because that's really what it is. Eleanor, thank you so much for joining the show today. I greatly appreciate you lending your story and your experience to the listeners.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for the space, for the energy and your intention, and I love these conversations because they give permission when people in our worlds will not grant you the permission to deconstruct and then become who you were always meant to be. So thank you so much, jenny.
Speaker 1:Of course, and listeners. Thank you so much for being with us today and we will catch you on the next one. Take care.
