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Steel Roses Podcast
Steel Roses is a podcast created for women by women. Social pressures for women are constant. Professionals, stay at home moms, working moms, we are here to tell you that you are not alone! This podcasts primary focus is providing real honest content shedding light on the daily struggles of women while also elevating women's voices.
All women are experiencing similar pressures and hurdles, and yet, no one is talking out in the open. If these topics continue to only exist as whispered conversations then we further permeate a culture of judgement and shame.
Join Jenny weekly as she discusses topics that effect women in a relatable, honest way.
Steel Roses Podcast
When Leaders Serve: How Tenia Davis Is Transforming Workplace Culture
Dr. Tenia Davis shares her journey from HR professional to organizational behavior expert, exploring how servant leadership creates environments where employees feel valued and empowered to contribute their best work.
• Journey into HR from a technical background and witnessing the evolution to strategic HR
• Importance of servant leadership in creating workplace environments where employees can thrive
• Advice for young professionals including understanding company culture and asking questions
• Balancing professional accomplishments with parenting responsibilities
• Evolution of workplace expectations with younger generations valuing work-life balance
• Developing emotional intelligence to build trust with colleagues and clients
• Moving past workplace stereotypes to create authentic connections with team members
• Creating positive workplace culture through grace and finding commonalities
For more leadership insights, check out Tenia's books: "Eight Essential Steps to Inspire Others and Build a Thriving Workforce: A Leadership Advantage" and "The Feedback Blueprint: Unlocking the Power of Constructive Insights," or visit her website at leadershipwise.com.
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Hello everybody, this is Steel Rose's podcast. This podcast was created for women, by women, to elevate women's voices. I am especially excited to introduce you to our guest today. We have Tenia Davis with us. She is an accomplished human resources practitioner, an organizational behavior expert, with a distinguished record of leadership and executive positions at top tier organizations such as Harpo Productions, imanage, johnson Publishing Company and Raise. Tania's contributions to leadership and mentorship have been recognized by the United States Senate, affirming her dedication to inspiring and developing future leaders. With an MBA from Loyola University, chicago, and a PhD from Benedictine University's Center for Values-Driven Leadership, she bridges academic rigor with real-world experience, offering insights that are both practical and actionable.
Speaker 1:Tenia, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you, thank you for having me. I'm excited Listeners. I had a hard time this morning with Tenia because I kept talking with her and I kept saying like I have to hit record. I'm very excited for you to introduce yourself to the listeners and let them get to know a little bit about your background, how you got your start, how you've made your way through your focus, through what you were working on, and how you became so interested in servant leadership and really molding that.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay. So loaded question, I'll do layer it. I'll start with I'm a mom of two and my kids. One wants to run the world, as I was sharing, and one wants to save it, so they're polar opposites. So I always feel like I have to show up as a different person every time I talk to each one. But anyway I will get to that. I'm a mom, a wife, an employee, an entrepreneur, and just loving life and trying to contribute the best way I can and leave a strong legacy for my kids.
Speaker 2:I kind of fell into human resources. I started my career as a techie and the project I was working on had to quickly stand up in HR departments and I was voluntold into the role, and for different reasons, and from there I said, wow, you know, I like that. There's this spectrum of activities that take place under one umbrella. I started in HR when it was personnel and have gone through the evolution to strategic HR, which is so exciting, and through that evolution, you know I've worked with and for many leaders, and one leader in particular that I really admire and respect modeled the behaviors of a servant leader. At the time no one was using the term servant leader, but Tim Bennett, who was the president and CEO of an organization I worked for, was just an amazing leader and I thought that's the kind of leader I want to be when I grow up. And you know, he led this team of type A individuals and was able to get the best out of everyone and I wanted to model that leadership style.
Speaker 2:And when I took on the challenge of my PhD program I don't know if I was insane at the time or what, but no, it was a great journey One of the things I really wanted to study, learn and understand was how a servant leader creates success and is that servant leader able to carry those characteristics on to other organizations. So a lot of my research was around servant-led organizations and the individuals that kind of morphed into their leadership chops and were they able to move those on to other organizations. So that's kind of how I sparked my interest. I've seen phenomenal leaders and I've seen leaders that just want to run from and always want to create an environment where employees feel all employees feel that they can thrive and contribute and produce their best work. And it starts with leadership. Good leaders can really create a cocoon of success and leaders that don't have or are not fully developed as leaders can really harm a company culture.
Speaker 1:It's so I and it's interesting to hear you You're basically like reaffirming a lot of what myself and and former coworkers and former colleagues, like we, we all you know talk to each other still and it's been a great pleasure to grow in my industry.
Speaker 1:I work in marketing and communications and it's it's funny because I I used to I remember being like the new kid and I was, you know, being the youngest person in the organization and you were like the baby and everybody kind of like coddled a little bit, and now that I've had about 18 years in my industry, it's very it's.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know if it's reassuring or affirming or whatever it is, but it feels very good to be able to have that and to be able to look back and say, like you know, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly, kind of like what you just alluded to, but much nicer you said it, much nicer than I did For somebody who's, you know, starting out in their professional life, which I'm not sure if there's a lot of folks doing that these days with the evolution of working, you know, via social media. But for for the youth, the younger folks, the 20 somethings that are starting out today. Is there something that? Is there a piece of advice, or is there something that you would say to an up and somebody who's starting out? Like you know, this is something you're going to have to deal with, or what would you do in this situation, like, how would you guide them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, because the workplace is so complex, right, understand the lay of the land. Identify a mentor that's been with you or a buddy that's been with the organization for a couple of years, so that they can kind of decode it for you. Right, because you do want to understand what are the unwritten rules so that you don't hit any landmines, and then also understand what does success look like for that organization? Right, and in that success, right, where do you fit? Understand the mission, the value, understand the business itself. It's really important to understand how the business works and your role how does your role impact all of that? Right, and then understand as well you know what is the career trajectory and hopefully those questions were asked in the interview so you know what you're working towards and how you will be evaluated. It's very important to know how you will be evaluated.
Speaker 2:How often will you receive feedback? I think the worst thing a leader can do and it's not, I know it's not deliberate, because no one likes giving feedback but wait until the end of year. You know it's so funny Every company is the same. Well, you know that I've seen heard of. But you know, you get to the end of year and it's oh, it's the annual review. I think about all the things that they've done Well, what didn't they do? I'm one of the halo effect. You know they did an amazing job the last three months and all of a sudden, rock star. You're great, you're wonderful, and forgot all the things that took place in the first and second quarter, or something went wrong. It's like you did have this horrible review Right, not factoring in all the contributions that took place in the beginning of the year. So you know, know what the feedback cadence is.
Speaker 2:It's very important to give feedback along the way. That cadence is. It's very important to give feedback along the way. So you know what you're doing well and then you also know what you need to improve upon. So you know it's hard walking in the doors of a new organization.
Speaker 2:I also say listen, make sure you pay attention to the things that are said and things that are not said, and ask questions. I think that's really the most important thing Ask questions, you know. Don't make assumptions. You know assumptions can take you in the wrong direction. But ask questions and make sure you have clarity, especially, you know if you're working on a high profile project or just any project in general. Make sure you have clarity, understand the expectations and how you'll be evaluated and what the work that you do is.
Speaker 1:You know it's, it's interesting. Well, one thing I will say I do it to this day and I actually I do it with my team. To this, like my, even the junior folks, I'm like, if you see something that I'm doing that you think could be done differently, I'm like I really want you to tell me. I'm like because you're going to look at things at a whole different perspective and you might know some technology that I'm completely unaware of, because I was raised in the day and age where we still use fax machines. If you know about something, let me know, because I want to do good too here. You know, my approach is very interesting because, like, I think our approach, our approaches are probably similar in observation wise. Our approaches are probably similar in observation wise.
Speaker 1:For every poor manager that I had, I would always look at the situation like, let me just take a step back here. This is not personal. Well, maybe for them it was, but for me it wasn't. I always tried to keep that in mind. I'm like, this is not personal, this is business. You don't have to like me, but we need to get an alignment on like, what do I need to do to make this job role like fit, like what do I have to do here? So there was always that element. But you always walk away from a situation with some kind of knowledge. So even if your manager was really awful and you felt like they're sucking the life out of you which happens you can still walk away from that situation and say, like I learned how to not behave, like I know I was put in this position so I know that. Like, at some point down the line, if I choose to be managing people, or if I get to that point, like I know, not to do this to other people, like I know how to respond here.
Speaker 1:A little bit of a funny story. When I started, you know, new college graduate, I thought I, you know, knew it all and I want and back and back. Then I used to use the line fake it until you make it, and so I thought it was like part of my success would be pretending like I knew what I was talking about, even though I didn't and to some degree in communications that's a thing to some degree. But I didn't ask any questions. So it was my first project at this agency that I was working at. At the time they rolled the dice on me and I didn't ask questions because I was like, well, I'll figure it out, I'll just figure this out on my own. I also had the mindset of, look, I'll just ignore it, maybe nobody will notice that I really don't know what I'm talking about. Until it actually came back to bite me.
Speaker 1:And so I was at that time working in logistics and I was told that I had to order airport signage. I had no idea what that meant and it seems a little, it seems a little logical, like you have to order a sign for the airport. I had no clue what that meant. You know, 23 year old Jenny was like oh, I'm ordering a bunch of signage, maybe one of these will be good for them and that's what they need. But I never actually asked the specific question.
Speaker 1:So the day comes or we have hundreds of people arriving for an event and they're like Okay, so where's the signs for the airport? And I was like, what what? And laugh, no, because I'm like but at the time I remember like my stomach like fell to my feet and I was like, oh, my God, I actually screwed something up here because I didn't open my mouth and you know, they moved along Like we. Obviously we figured. They figured it out because there was a lot of professionals there that knew what to do for pivots. They figured it out. Everything went fine.
Speaker 1:But at the very end, after everything was said and done, the VP, she pulls me aside and she says to me maybe this isn't for you, maybe you need to rethink what your focus will be, maybe this isn't the industry for you. And I didn't cry in her office, but I walked my high heels down to the bathroom and I cried a little bit. I pulled myself together and I took that as a challenge and I didn't. I didn't fold under the pressure and I was like you know what I can do this and I can do this better and I can really throw myself in here and learn everything I can. And I'm going to show them.
Speaker 1:Like Jenny has got this. Jenny Well, my maiden, jenny Dio, has got this like she's going to kill it. And I did eventually, and I got promotions and I did all this stuff. But it was really that pivotal moment of like Jenny, you have to ask questions, you don't know what you're talking about. You need to open your mouth and say like I'm not sure what to do here, and I think that that is something also that gets lost, especially with, like, younger folks, like they don't want to seem stupid, so they're not going to ask the question, and you have to, you have to have the dialogue.
Speaker 2:And it builds rapport. Right, it builds rapport, and you're right. I think we all have that moment of like darn it. And I try. I mean, just think about, you know, the leader that you had at that time. If that person would have said, look you know, wasn't the best look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she didn't come at me that way.
Speaker 2:If she would have coached you differently, you still would have had the aspiration and you still would have felt challenged, but you would have felt more secure. Probably would have got there faster.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And I will say, you know, it's funny that you mentioned that, because now I reflect a lot on those situations and I do think to myself like what could have been a better way to handle that from like the leadership perspective? Now, that agency also had the phrase trial by fire and I was flat out told, told. I was flat out told, this is how we do it. You will get thrown in and then we're gonna see if you can sink or swim. And you know, young Jenny took this as like a strategy, by the way?
Speaker 1:no, it's not. This is a terrible idea. This is awful. But, like I truly was, like I was like, oh, all right. I was like this is how's done and I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it and I'm gonna prove to everyone that I'm going to be successful here and I'm going to figure this out, and that's just not the way to go. Now, granted, like, yeah, sure, I learned a lot, but that wouldn't have been. That's not nearly how I would do things now, and when I train people now it's much more of like I call them working sessions. I love doing working sessions with people, like ask me questions, like go through it and let me guide you as you go. That's how you're going to learn, and then you're not going to make mistakes and you're not going to be stressed and have anxiety all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, the best leadership that I've seen and just reflecting on that organization in particular, I mean they were so high, thriving, but they literally had like a template for executing pretty much everything. And if they didn't have it, they would together figure it out and then make it happen. But they would have a framework so someone coming in didn't have to stumble through it. And that's the worst thing to stumble through it and people watch and then place judgment and then you're put into a category.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know that's not leadership, but but what I've seen is where the organization had the highest response was having a template for, okay, this is how we execute this particular project, right. Okay, they do a post-mortem debrief and it's a. It's an effort where, walking in, you have the playbook right to execute and when you have the playbook you can get the workout faster and it's a lot crystal right and it builds confidence and it also within the organization, it builds trust right. I've been seeing some organizations where people will watch and then they'll swoop in to save the day of what they created, right.
Speaker 2:And so and that creates a lot of distrust. So you know, leadership matters. You know I say it all the time it really does. And the workforce today? They want to be in an environment where there's authenticity, people mean what they say, where they can learn and grow, where there's trust and where they feel they can belong. It's a little different than when you and I were going through. Oh, it's totally different. There's a job, go do it.
Speaker 1:I'm telling you, man, I had some scary interviews in the beginning where they were like you will do extra hours and you will be working until. But at the time obviously I didn't know any better. I was like okay, absolutely Like, this is what I got to do to be successful. I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:Well, it's different now Folks coming in for interviews. You know, righties don't work over.
Speaker 1:I mean right, work-life balance is like a real, it's actual, real, it's real checklist to it.
Speaker 2:Right, good, you know I do. I think having the balance is so important. I know there's some organizations where they have their leaders take a day off just to do something totally different, just kind of reboot, refresh and keep the creativity flowing, because if you're on the grind all the time, there's no way that you can reboot, step back, reflect, analyze, because you're always, you know, in the gerber wheel of things. I think it's important to have a little bit of balance. I work really hard to have balance right.
Speaker 2:Someone once told me and it was really good advice you have your entire life to have a career, you have one opportunity to be a parent and you know, as a working mom, that was always a juggle for me. Oh my gosh. I have to say, you know, I have to stay until the end. I have to go pick up my daughter, you know, but I have to stay until the end. They're going to think that I'm a slacker, but I have to go pick up my daughter, I shouldn't have to choose, right. And so you know, I do appreciate. You know, the workforce today where they're not going to choose. They're going to say, look, I'm going to give you my hall. And oh, by the way, I got to go pick up my daughter, and so you know, and I think that's smart for For the employee and it's also smart for the organization. So the reality is that I truly believe people show up to give their best. You know, I really do, and for the most part, most people give you more than 40 hours a week.
Speaker 2:Oh 100%, 100%, right, yeah. So yeah, I think there are challenges with the new workforce, but I also appreciate a lot of the thought processes with this new workforce.
Speaker 1:You know, I think it's. I like the flexibility more now and I will say this and I've actually said this quite a bit to other folks too I think the only reason why I was able to gain the momentum and the success that I was able to get was because I was able to transition to just fully working from home, and I know that I know deep in my soul like that's the only reason why I can juggle and be able to be everywhere that I am Because, like what you just said, there's calls that run all the way to you know the 530 mark and I'm like my child has an event or whatever they need to be at at like 545. So that means now, and it was funny like I was telling one of my team members the other day it was like 1230 afternoon and we're just taking a, just a chat, like like you said one on one call just to chat, like see what's up and check in. And I said I was like Look, I hope you don't mind this. I was like I have to cook dinner while you're on the phone with me and she was like it's 1230. And I said I'm like I'm like the kids get home at four. They have activities at 530. I have a call until five o'clock. That means that that will only give me 20 minutes maybe to get everybody fed and then back out the door and I'm, like my husband's here and he helps, like absolutely, but I need to do my part and show up and like, make sure that they have food so that he can deal with that part. It's a partnership of making sure things are flowing.
Speaker 1:But that juggle for for working moms is is very, very real and it's very intense. There's a lot of days too, where, if I know I have a busy day and I know that it also includes kids' activities, I'll get up and start working at 4.30 in the morning because I know that that's the only way that I can feasibly fit everything in that has to get done and I'm dedicated to both parts of my life. I'm very dedicated to my kids and I don't want them to. There was for a very long time they only saw me working and it was a consistent like they would get very upset because they knew mommy was working all the time and there was constant conference calls. And that was back when I felt like I had to overcompensate so much because I had three small children and I have. I've had clients tell me, well, you can't do your job because you're a mother, you can't do this job because you know you're not going to. You're oh, that must be why you're not doing well. And I've yeah, I've had clients talk to me like that. I remember I'm like I am doing my job well, like I have children, but that does not affect my ability to be a professional here and so I'm very cautious.
Speaker 1:It took me a long time and about I think it was I was 37 or so when I had that epiphany moment of I only have one shot at being a mom and it like it, kind of like it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was put on this project and I was like stuck on it for like three weeks. I had said I couldn't handle it. I said my workload was already too full. But you know, as you know, like when you're good at your job, it's like being you know the punishment for being good, you're going to get more stuff.
Speaker 1:And I was put on this really intense project for like three weeks. I was just on it and my boss was nowhere to be found. She kind of just floated off into the abyss. She should have been handling it but she just kind of left me to deal with it and me being dedicated to my team, I couldn't just let them flail about. I had to do it.
Speaker 1:So for three weeks I didn't see my kids, like I was working from home, but my husband was home with them. He it was summertime, so he was in the pool with them and hanging out with them and doing all the fun stuff. And I was stuck in my office and when it was all done, I remember like I came out of the office and they were like, are you done? Like, are you finally done? They were like bigger and I was like and my whole heart like totally crushed. And I remember like in that moment saying like I'm not doing this anymore, like for work, I'm, yes, I'm valued, but I'm also replaceable. I'm not replaceable here at home. So it's that very there's a very serious dance that women have to do to like balance both of those worlds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I went through that, that, that same process, and when my youngest was, I think Athena was about, I think she was eight, I think it was eight, but she was, you know, joking, and she was, this was my mommy, and she said she had a, um, a little cup and the cup was the phone and she was just talking, talking, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, and she kept putting the thing yeah, and you know, I just said cried, I was like that is not I am.
Speaker 1:They do that to me too, but it was.
Speaker 2:But you know it's, you're right, it is a juggle. And I will say one of the things that I am so grateful for I really have a good village around me and there's no way I could have done half the things without the village, my family and friends, because we cannot do it all and I think there's an expectation that we do it all and I don't think people understand all that goes into it. I mean, I always say I have the utmost respect for stay-at-home moms. That is the hardest job. Oh, my gosh, that is the hardest job. And I will take someone that has been a stay-at-home mom over a bunch of other candidates, because I know the nuances that they balance, juggle, make decisions and multitask and lead.
Speaker 2:You think about all the different dynamics that go into a day. Some of those dynamics exist in the workplace and I do think we need to give each other more grace. I really do. It's so easy to say, oh, I would do this if I were you. No, you would not. Yeah, no. So I think we need to give each other grace and it is a juggle, right, and it's not easy. There are some things I did extremely well and then there are some things I just totally bombed right. And when we're parents, you know it's not like there's this book, I don't care what Dr Spock's is, no, I always say Dr Spock never met my kids. So you know, there's some things we know will work and then there are just some things we know just will not. We got to figure it out and each child is different. They have different needs, different love languages. And my one daughter, it's time that's really important. So I need to sit still and not multitask in front of her. Yeah, they get offended, right, and my parents multitask all the time.
Speaker 1:I don't remember a sit down and now, like I don't never even said anything.
Speaker 2:But you know, like these, just these kids are different. So, but my youngest is totally different, right, she just wants to know one, two, three. Okay, can I go now? You?
Speaker 2:know and they just have different needs. So understanding those dynamics too are are important, even with you know some of the things that I create. I have my kids in mind. I try to create within the space of what I'm doing. I try to incorporate them or at least connect in, because they're learning from us. They're learning how to be entrepreneurs. They're learning how to be business people. They're learning how to have a strong work ethic. Yes, they're learning all these things right, and a good work ethic is very. They're learning all these things right and a good work ethic is very important, no matter what people do. However, they're also learning how to be on a grind without balance, and so it's important that we kind of figure out how to balance that out and we're still trying to figure that out too. Right, but I think there's an expectation of moms that are just higher. Yeah, like my daughter, what do you mean? Why can't you? Well, what do you mean? This drives me crazy. I'm like what are you talking about? Of course, you know I need to do this first before I do that, but I think, because we do it all, they feel we can really do it all, and so they don't see or understand the work that goes into doing it all. I now spend more time explaining hey, in order for me to do this, I have to do this.
Speaker 2:You know I didn't go to school straight through in my younger years. You know I'm 58. So in my 40s I went back to school to get my MBA. In my 50s I went back to school for a PhD. So these are different cycles of time. And so it's interesting.
Speaker 2:Achieving my MBA, my daughter only saw the output of that my PhD, because it was during COVID. You know the output of that my PhD, because it was during COVID. She saw the work that went into it different, and that's when it dawned on me they need to really understand the work that goes into it. And so she saw. You know, there'll be days I never move from my chair. I'm just reading and researching and typing and writing. She's like what's wrong with you? I said, oh, can you give me some water? But you know. But she saw and there was a lot of hard work and tears too. It was just like what do you mean? You marked up my paper. This is a great paper. But you know she saw the work and the rigor that went into that as well to achieve that accomplishment, you know.
Speaker 1:I like that. It's interesting because I'm doing the same approach with my kids. Like I'll explain to them like in detail and it's actually very funny because we've been doing that since they were little Like, since they could talk my husband and I explain things to them in detail. So you imagine, like a little three-year-old sitting there and I'm like listen, mommy has to do this, this and this. Okay, and in order to do all these things, then we can do that. And they're like okay, mommy, you know, but because we've been doing it for forever, they they do understand and they have a little bit more of a grasp of like. For example, if I'm having, if I've had just a lot of phone calls throughout the day, no-transcript diligence there.
Speaker 1:But when you are a servant leader, it you actually have a lot more on your plate. So there's there's a misconception of like, oh, like when you're in a leadership position, like you're just delegating and delegating, that's it, and you walk away. And that's really not the case, because now you're responsible for people and you actually work harder because you need to make sure that you're taking these people under your wing and really teaching them properly. So I'll get to the end of the day sometimes and I will feel like I've given all I've got already. But that can't be the case because I have three children that are looking to me for everything for this moment, and I know I only have a couple more years of this. I'm everything, yeah. So I take that really seriously. So I get, but I get to the end of the day sometimes and I forget. I don't remember what activity we're going to.
Speaker 1:I think it was like religious class, I think it was a religion class and it was like five o'clock or it was 5 30. Cause we were late and I'm rushing them over to the thing and all three of my kids talk at the same time. They have no regard for each other. They will all be talking to me, but all at the same time. And I, I turned, and the music was on the car too. So I turned the music off.
Speaker 1:I was like please, I need all of you to just be quiet for the rest of the car ride. I was like just don't talk. I was like I'm I'm so sorry, I know mommy's being mean right now, but please, please, just be quiet. And it was like really quiet. And then, all of a sudden, my son was like wait for how long? And I was like, just just. And then, like one of his sisters was like shh, mommy said to be quiet.
Speaker 1:He's like I'm trying to figure out how long. And then he started going back at me and I was like, oh my God, clarity, that's all. He was like, I just need it, I need a timeframe. He's very yeah, he's my, he's my litigator. He's like going to be.
Speaker 1:I think he's going to end up being something in that capacity, because everything you say to him he comes back. He's like okay, but what? If? Right, If I do it like this and maybe like this, like, then I can do this. And we're like, oh my God. He told me the other day, like like what it was, and he was like yeah, but it's okay, because I do this, because and Bobby lets me do it because he's tired and he doesn't want to argue with me, so he knows, I know I'm gonna be able to do this. And I'm like oh, you've already got us figured out. Regarding servant leadership, though, because that is, I think, a fairly new term in the business world Not new all the way new, but I don't feel like it's used as much, is it? Am I right in saying that? Because I've talked about this a little bit and people seem to look at me like I'm crazy.
Speaker 2:So I think people struggle with the word servant. So I've heard a lot of folks say service leadership.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think people struggle with the word servant, so I've heard a lot of folks say service leadership.
Speaker 2:I think people struggle with the word servant and the concept itself has been around for a long time. But the reason why I am a fan, of course, of servant leadership or service leadership is I do think there's something to the way that employees want to be led today, and a servant leader will look at the team, the dynamics of the team, the nuances of the team and look at how can I get the best out of this group and how can I help cultivate, evolve and help folks transform or even grow in their career trajectory right. So that's a little different. That's where you're literally taking the time to get to know the person you know. Jenny, I want to get to understand. Well, how do you like to learn? Tell me a little bit about your background, because that has a lot of impact and influence to how you will approach your work. Right Versus. Here's the task get it done, and I don't care what you do Monday through Friday or Saturday or Sunday. I think we'll have a little bit more still business focused. Right, it doesn't take away from the business focus and I think sometimes people kind of get that confused, but it's not. Actually they're very focused on the business outcome, but they're also focused on okay, these are the people that are going to get this work out the door. Let on, okay, these are the people that are going to get this work out the door. Let me see how I can help them have clarity, understanding, but also, what are their drivers? How can I help them have success? How can I give them feedback to have success? Right, and there's more of an investment in the person's development, right? So, there, there, there is a little bit of that.
Speaker 2:I found that when I was researching servant leaders, the ones that really stood out were the ones that took that extra step. Servant leaders there's these different characteristics, and awareness is one. I think it's more than that. The ones that really had the most success had more than awareness. They were almost accountable to their team. They were accountable to developing, you know, their, their folks, and so that's a little bit different than having awareness or cultural awareness, something that that's more of a check the box to me. Having cultural awareness and that's one of the characteristics, but it's more of having awareness that, yes, you know, ginny might be from a different country, she has different customs. That's also wrapped in the way she approaches her work. So how can we get the benefit of that? Right, let me understand what that is, and that's a little bit different. And that builds trust. The reason why that's important is that that builds trust, Right. It also, I think, as leaders, it expands our learning, right. I mean, everybody's had those.
Speaker 2:I had one leader like he would only talk like in jargon that he got from MTV and I don't even use that jargon, right, but that's the way I talk, right, and you know it was so off putting, but it was what he thought was right, right, Right, and it kind of gave him a pass of really getting to know me and I never used I mean, he went for months just having this conversation this way. I never used any of the words that he used, right, but it was cool to him and he thought that's people like me, that's the way we talked, but he didn't take any time to really know me. And so I think the workforce today has somewhat of that same dynamic. They want to know that they belong, they want to know that they can contribute and they want to know that you have a vested interest in their career development. Right, in order for that to take place, you have to have a conversation with folks, right, and so I think when leaders at least based on my observation when leaders take the time to really understand the nuances of their folks, they not only have a stronger team, but they have stronger trust, right, and the dynamics are more authentic versus.
Speaker 2:I've worked with folks that I mean they live in every stereotype, and so you're literally working to prove yourself, but you're also working to prove that the stereotypes don't exist. That's exhausting, right, and so I think the workforce today is just creating, and they're creating, their own dynamic, right Of how they want to, to be in the workplace, and I think that's, I think that's fair, right, absolutely. Look at you know you spend more than 40 hours a week at a company. Oh yeah, you wanted to mean something, you wanted to account for something, right? Yes, you get a paycheck, but you're also creating.
Speaker 1:You're showing up. Yeah, you're creating something. It's interesting because the dynamics of an organization and your team dynamics, the folks that you're working with, it's so important that you're working with, it's so important exactly what you just said, there's like valuable, like personal transactions that are happening in conversations. Because, yes, like you're focused on the work and I have that problem, by the way, and I think it's because of you, know how I came up in the industry I have that problem where I will dive right into the project and I forget that like no, but there's like, but there's people here and you don't know how, if they had a rough night, if something happened or you know what have you? They're going through a breakup, like whatever it is, there's people on the other end of this line. So, like, jenny, ease up a little bit. And so I actually have to mental check myself to like you don't have to like dive right in and like make sure you ask people like, oh, how was your weekend, how are you doing? Where I currently work?
Speaker 1:I was really surprised because all the way up the ladder in the organization we jumped on this call, there was all these top people in and I was like, oh my gosh, I was new so I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to make sure I'm on it and I know what I'm doing here and they chatted for 10 minutes about something really silly and everybody was kind of laughing and just joking around with each other and I was like we're on like a deadline, what is going on?
Speaker 1:Right now? I was very like thrown off because I was used to and I've always been used to, like going direct in here's the orders, that's it, move on. And it's actually taken me. It's actually I've been with my organization for two months and it's taken me a minute to get used to the fact that, like everyone, human humanly talks to each other and it's not like you know barking orders and that's it. Talks to each other and it's not like you know barking orders and that's it. And so that is very interesting. As personal as I am, it's taking me some getting used to for that it's happening.
Speaker 2:Life is happening. Life is definitely happening for folks and sometimes you just need a break. Sometimes you just need a break and people need to know that they can feel safe in doing that Right. People need to feel safe. Listen, I don't care how many robots you build, you still need people to do the job Honestly, honestly being built these days, but you still need you and it still needs humanity.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, there's we still need to like, and even now that and I mentioned, like I work from home. I've been working from home since 2017. And I've noticed in that dynamic and I mentioned this earlier that I think people get used to that and then they forget that there is a human on the other side of the line. That's a person and you know, when I was transitioning out of my last agency, we, you know it was a rough go and we kept trying to make it work and it was just a mismatch of personalities. It's really what it boiled down to. It was really just a mismatch of personalities. And I got to the end there and I remember thinking to myself, like what are you doing? Like if you were dating someone for two and a half years and it was this hard right, you would have broken up with them already. So what are you doing here? Like what are you trying to force? Like it's not working. That is what it is.
Speaker 1:And it was actually a little bit funny, because when I resigned that's actually exactly what I said. I was like it's really just a mismatch of personalities. Like I love the work, I love the clients, like I love all the stuff, but, like, when it came to actually working in the process of it, it was a total mismatch. And I walked away, though still feeling good, because I was like it's okay, I'm not for everybody and that has to be okay. I shouldn't be for everybody, and it goes to that authenticity that you were talking about earlier. If I'm really being authentic and true to myself and it's just not working for wherever I am, that doesn't mean that they're wrong or that I'm wrong. It just means it's a mismatch. That's okay, and you don't have to continue to bang your head against the wall. You can just open the door and go out the other side. Like this doesn't have to be a thing.
Speaker 2:And I think you say that I've seen that in other organizations as well, where if you have to work really hard to understand the company culture and only one or two people really understand the company culture, it's probably the culture that they created, right, and so you're never going to be able to crack that code, because then that means there will have to be change, right, and some companies, or whoever's leading it, don't want the change Right. If you represent change, then they will continue creating cycles that only they set the parameters around, right, and that's not. That's not a fun way to work.
Speaker 1:No and and and it's okay. And that's the other thing too, myself included. People get stuck being like I can't leave because I've only been here for six months and that'll look bad on my resume and I don't know so much that that's even like real anymore. I think people understand now like that. You know, sometimes things just don't work out. I have a couple places on my resume where I was only there for a year or a little over a year. There was one place I was only there for like nine months and I was like no, it's just not working. You know like it and it happens and you have to kind of just be okay with it and go with it. But it's still like a learning experience.
Speaker 1:I will say what um in one of my really really early agencies um was when I learned at first, learned about emotional intelligence and you touched on it earlier, so I want to talk about that.
Speaker 1:I um I remember I was, I was struggling at this agency. It was kind of toxic and but I was dealing with it Because, again, I thought that I'd have a choice and so I was dealing with it and I was just making sure I kept my head down. Do your job, you know, suck it up Because you need, you need to work. And so I just kept moving forward with it and in while I was there, one of the human resources person gave me this book and she was like, check it out, it's really cool. And I read it and it changed how I approached everything, because I can't remember what the book was called but I'm gonna have to look it up and see if I could figure out what it was because I read the book and I remember going through it and then afterwards I was able to almost like out of a body, almost like an out of body experience. Take a step back and just observe the room.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and pick up on cues, that it's in the tone of voice, it's in the eye contact, it's in the mannerisms, it's in the facial expressions, like there's so much more being communicated than what's coming out of our mouths.
Speaker 1:And you can observe it virtually too. So I'm 100% virtual, and when I'm speaking with clients, I can see it. I can just see it on their faces and I can sense their energy through the call. That's part of why I'm able to be doing well know, doing well at my job, because I can pick up on these cues. And something that I've developed over the past 18 years was being able to foster trust with clients and being able to have, like, make sure they understand, like I'm here for you, I'm here to elevate you, so tell me what you need and I'm going to show up for you. Not everybody is very direct and you kind of have to feel it out, but emotional intelligence is something that, like, I've talked to people about quite a bit, to say, like, if you don't know anything about it, you really should start researching it and start looking things up, because this is like a really crucial thing for us.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. And having empathy. I agree, you know I think the world needs a lot more of what's going on now. But you know, I think for some it might be a reconditioning right, because you know we were just talking about how we kind of grew up in the workplace and it's different now where the workforce today they look for the EQ and empathy first. So you know how leaders lead with that, which is really critical for some. Yeah, and not saying that one style is, I want to make sure I'm clear. One style is not better than the other. You do need all work styles depending on the environment, the company culture right in the business. You do need all styles on the environment, the company culture right In the business. You do need all styles. What's important is knowing how to adapt to the team that you're leading right, so it's not forcing the team to conform to the leader style. The leader has to be a little agile and get the best out of their team right, and so that sometimes creates a pivot for them.
Speaker 1:And that takes time too. I mean, this is not, like you know, you rip the bandaid off and everything is all well and good. It's a consistent. As you said earlier, it starts with the leader and the leader setting the example, but there has to be a consistency of making sure that it's understood, Like I'm setting this example but I expect this from my people and really like paying attention and digging in with each person and making sure you get to know these people.
Speaker 1:And you know I follow Gary Vaynerchuk I don't know if you're familiar with it, so I actually worked at the bank next to the wine store that his family owned and I remember, like I would, I was banking, I was doing the bank transaction, I was like 19. And obviously I didn't know, like he wasn't anybody at that point. And it was very funny to me because, like several years later, a friend of a friend hands me this book, was like hey, like read this book by this guy and I started reading it and I was like wait, I, I know this person, so I've actually paid attention to his career trajectory and he talks quite a bit about, like you know, he talks to his people, he makes it a point to have conversation everybody. He talks to everybody, it doesn't matter what level they are. He makes sure that he talks to everybody and he impress, matter what level they are. He makes sure that he talks to everybody and he impresses upon his organization what he expects from people. And that's how people show up.
Speaker 1:You know a nod to also like my current boss, because she shows up the way she does, with so much emotional intelligence and she does care so much about the team and because she is a servant leader hands down, because she shows up like that, I actually show up more because I know how hard she's working on things and I know what she's expecting and because I'm seeing that I actually will press myself harder to make sure that I'm doing better so that I can support her and the team shows up more. Yeah, yeah. And it has this beautiful like waterfall effect make sure that I'm doing better that so that I can support her and the team shows up more. Yeah, yeah. And it has this beautiful like waterfall effect of like we're all showing up because we need to work, we're here to support each other and at the end of the day, before everybody's logging off, everyone checks in hey, are you okay. Does anyone need anything before I go? Are we all good? Does anyone have late night work? It's a beautiful thing to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that. I totally agree with that Tenia.
Speaker 1:do you have, if you had something that you'd want to say to the listeners from this conversation, an important highlight that you think would be a key takeaway? What would it be? I like to do this to all of my guests, by the way, and everyone comes out with something totally different.
Speaker 2:I think the world is so polarized now I think we need to give each other more grace, and if a moment in time can create an energy of intensity I won't give it a label then I would think that another movement can create something positive. So I would like to create something positive and I think, in the workplace, just a simple hey, can I help you out with this? Right, if we whether you're a leader or not take the time to help someone else do their job better, you'll have a stronger workplace and also the humanity in us comes out right, and I would like to have a movement like that. How can we help each other be better and how can we help our work environment be better? We help our work environment be better, right, and sometimes it just might be thank you, you did extremely well and I appreciate the work that you produced today. Or I appreciate the things that you did, or thank you for the information you gave me. It helped me do my job better, or, you know, it might be a little better outcome if you do this. Do you mind if I show you Right? I just think if we start using different language, I think we're in such a state to where everything is you versus me. I'm right. You're wrong, up versus down that we're not looking for commonalities and we have more commonalities in common. We have more in common than we do different Right, and there's nothing wrong with in common. We have more in common than we do different right, and there's nothing wrong with being different right. Different is good, but when you look at common, what you have in common, you will accept more of what is different, and so I think our focus is in the wrong place, and if we're going to truly rise to the occasion of who we all are, then part of that is how we show up, you know, and so I would like to see more of that.
Speaker 2:The last piece in my book, servant Leadership, I talk a lot about how, having a servant leadership mentality and mentoring, how one could do that, and I literally wrote the book that way so a person wouldn't have to read through chapters and chapters just to know, oh, I'm only supposed to do this. Okay, I literally wrote both books and how to give feedback, because those are the two feedback, and every company has been like the most painful process for folks. How do I? I don't want to tell someone. I don't want to, I don't want to get bad news, and so I created a really simple to, really just from the things that I've been doing my entire career. But I wanted something that any sort of leader, any stage, wherever they are, I could just pick it up and say, okay, this is how I can walk through a conversation and be productive. But it starts with us and what's the name of the book? So I have two.
Speaker 2:There's the book on servant leadership. It's Eight Essential Steps to Inspire Others and Build a Thriving Workforce. It's a leadership advantage. It's such a long title, I know. And then the other book is the Feedback Blueprint, unlocking the Power of Constructive Insights. You know, I think both offer very simple tools. At least I wrote it so that it was easy to understand. There is some academic aspects to it, just to kind of give some of the science behind. You know how people hear, how people see things, and talk a lot about Chihari's window as well, which is kind of a concept of how you see yourself and how others see you, which you don't see, which are your blind spots, and so I think both offer the reader one. You don't have to read through pages and pages of work, but it gives tools as well, so someone could take it and use it right away.
Speaker 1:And I will say this listeners, I'm going to link those books in the episode description and what I'd like to highlight here is you don't have to be in a leadership position to learn from these books. So even if you're like fresh starting out and you know you're very junior and just trying to, you're figuring your way out, these kind of this kind of literature will help ground you in really good practices for communication and inter office communication and how to handle situations. You could always manage up that. That's like a. That's a very serious thing I manage up consistently. Like that's a really big deal and I want to advise, like, if you are starting out in any industry, this is going to be anything, because in all industries you have to communicate.
Speaker 1:These kinds of books are really important. So I am going to link the books in the podcast description so you can take a look at them, because that, if you really looking to further your career like this is it. This is the way to be successful and it may not be the most popular aggressive, but you don't always have to be the aggressor. Like. This is just a way to go about it, where you can really find some really good gold nuggets there and I want to really call that out.
Speaker 2:And then my website, my blog. I deliberately put out almost every other day, but I put out content so leaders can just go somewhere and get quick information Right. It's free and sometimes leaders just need hey, what do I do? What do I say?
Speaker 1:And so I try to create that content in my blog. And is that on leadership wise, leadership wisecom, leadership, awesome, tanya, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 2:This has been such a pleasure I would literally hold you hostage all day and hang out with you, that's.
Speaker 1:that's been such a pleasure.
Speaker 2:I would literally hold you hostage all day and hang out with you. That's where I'm at at this point. I'll just bring the kids over. We can just run everywhere.
Speaker 1:It's okay. Kids come over all the time. It's fine, they're cool, they'll hang out. Thank you so much for joining me today, and listeners, thank you for hanging out with us. We will catch you on the next one. Take care, talk soon. Thank you.
